Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction

00:02:22: Interview examples

00:04:56: Part 1: getting ready…

00:04:58: … do your research

00:06:53: … practise out loud

00:08:21: … prepare some thoughtful questions

00:12:18: … interview watchouts

00:15:28: … how you want to show up

00:16:45: Part 2: in the moment…

00:16:49: … listening

00:18:50: … mirroring

00:20:38: … story, a stat and a so-what

00:23:56: Part 3: reflecting post-interview

00:24:05: … some reflection questions

00:28:26: … send a follow-up email

00:29:11: … ask for feedback

00:29:46: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Helen Tupper: Hi, I'm Helen.

Sarah Ellis: And I'm Sarah.

Helen Tupper: And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, a weekly show where we talk about the ins, outs, ups and downs of work and give you some ideas for action, some tools to try out and a little bit of squiggly support along the way.

Sarah Ellis: And this week, we're talking about top tips for interviews.  And actually, Helen and I are in the same room today.  And whenever we're sitting across from each other, I always feel a bit like I'm being interviewed for this podcast.

Helen Tupper: Do you?

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.

Helen Tupper: That's a different dynamic.  I feel excited and you feel, like, intimidated!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, well there you go, that tells you everything you need to know, doesn't it?  And I know that some of you will be listening because you've got an interview coming up, so we are going to do our best to really help you do well in that experience.  But some of you might be listening thinking, "I haven't necessarily got an interview coming up", maybe you've just got an important conversation. 

You can also interview now, I think, in Squiggly Careers for so many more different things.  So, it might not always be a job role.  It could be a more informal conversation about being part of a network; it could be for a role as a trustee or a non-exec; it might be that you're applying for a learning opportunity or sort of pitching for something in your organisation, and I think a lot of things that we're going to talk about today, it's sort of that high-pressure conversation. I also think with interviews, one of the challenges is, we don't get that much practice.  So, it's not like we are having these conversations week in, week out.  And so, that's why they feel like such a high-pressure moment that matter, because suddenly we're in this slightly unusual, high-stress, high-adrenaline situation where we're trying to be brilliant.  So, we know that and we're going to try and make it a little bit easier for you.

Helen Tupper: And if you are a regular Squiggly Career listener, you may remember that back in 2018, we recorded in episode 41, a previous episode on interviews, which we've gone back and listened to.  And this is different because it's much more top tippy.  So, should you wish to listen to us quite a long time ago, please do.

Sarah Ellis: A younger us.

Helen Tupper: A younger us.  Now we're more cynical and experienced in the world of Squiggly Careers.  But yeah, this one is particularly tippy to help you if you're in that moment where you're thinking an interview is impending.

Sarah Ellis: So, we're going to divide it into three parts, part one, getting ready for your interview; part two, in the moment of your interview; and part three, reflecting after your interview.  And we've both reflected on our own experiences of lots of different interviews in our Squiggly Careers, some more successful than others, I think it's fair to say.

Helen Tupper: What's the last interview that you had?

Sarah Ellis: Last interview that I probably would label as an interview was going for a non-executive role.  That one did feel like an interview that I didn't get.  And then I've had a more informal interview, that I think I realised after the fact was an interview, that I did get.  So just shows you, hopefully these skills are helpful all the time.  What about you?

Helen Tupper: I was thinking about the informal interviews.  I do think a lot of the time you're like, even when you put yourself forward for a project or something, or you're pitching, you're kind of like, "The questions that I'm being asked are I'll totally irrelevant".

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.

Helen Tupper: I think the most official recent interview I had was for the EY Winning Women Programme that I had.  And I just remember, I'm not sure it was my best interview, and I was really, really keen!  And I got it, which is great, but I think I was talking about our business, which I'm obviously just overenthusiastic about anyway because I just think it's the best thing ever, and I really wanted to go on the programme.  I mean, ultimately I got it, which is great, but I think on reflection, I think I probably should have moderated some of my enthusiasm in that interview.  But we'll see.

Sarah Ellis: It's interesting, isn't it, as well, because I think back to that interview where I didn't get that role, it was a non-exec role, and actually I think I did really well in that interview.  I came out thinking I did my absolute best.  I tried, I prepared, I'd done a lot of things we're going to talk about today, and I got very, very positive feedback afterwards.  There was basically just someone better.  And, it's obviously a bit gutting, and I was still really disappointed because I'd really loved the organisation and I would have loved the role, but ultimately there was nothing I could have changed about me and my interview.  I felt like I came away giving it everything I'd got, I showed up in the way that I wanted to, I got great rapport with all the people and it was it was scary, it was really formal; four people sitting in a line, apprentice-style, interviewing you.  And so, I actually look back on that and feel good about myself, rather than feeling like I failed that interview.

Helen Tupper: And we're not going to assume, everyone, that you're going to fail an interview, but hopefully these tips are going to help you.  But just on Sarah's framing there, I think it is when you don't get an interview you want, I think you can come away and go, "Oh, there was obviously someone better".  But I wonder whether saying to yourself, "Someone was a better fit" is better than saying, "There was someone better".

Sarah Ellis: Well, I know who got that role because it's like a public thing.  And I looked and I was like, "Sure!"

Helen Tupper: Yeah, I think a better fit doesn't mean better than you, it just means a better fit for that role.  And I think that that can be an easier outcome, I think, to identify with, that someone was a better fit, rather than just someone's better than you.

Sarah Ellis: So, part one: getting ready.  Start by doing your research.  So, I happened to be in a room yesterday with quite a lot of recruiters, and then it occurred to me over lunch that we were doing this podcast.  So suddenly, I got very intense in my questions, and I was like, "Right, what are your top tips?" and I started making notes in my phone.  And one of the things that they said that they're always surprised that people don't do or don't do enough of is just some research.  And they weren't talking about really in-depth research, but they were just saying, make sure you understand trends, what's going on in the industry, and have a point of view that you can share and have a perspective. 

So, just making sure that you've read a bit, watched a bit, I don't know, know who the company's CEO is, read anything that they've shared publicly. So, I think this feels like quite a basic thing and probably because I'm quite a prepared person, so I can't imagine going for an interview without doing this.  But they said they have loads of people who get asked questions, you know, "What do you think are the challenges in our industry at the moment?" or, "What do you know about us?"  They even just ask that question and they said people really flounder, and that's often asked at the start or towards the start of an interview, and then you're not off to a great start.

Helen Tupper: And I think some of the easiest ways of doing research are either ask somebody who has worked or works in an organisation.

Sarah Ellis: That's a good one.

Helen Tupper: Those conversations sometimes give you some secret nuggets of knowledge.  On Google, put the company name in and then look at news, news reports, like news reports in the last six months and you'll see any big announcements they might have made.  I look on LinkedIn as well under the company.  It's quite interesting to see what people are sharing, what they're proud of, or any particular events.  Then obviously, you can use something like ChatGPT.  It does get a bit generic.  So, if I looked at, "Oh, what's happening at Virgin; what's it like to work at Virgin?" or, "What's happening in Virgin's market?" ChatGPT could probably summarise some of that stuff for you, but I would say that does get a bit more generic; whereas the news stories and individual people's posts, you get some quite specific insights from that stuff.

Sarah Ellis: So, number two, again relatively obvious, but think about what are the most obvious questions that people are likely to ask you and go beyond just identifying what they are, but practise saying them out loud.  And I know it always feels a bit weird and out of context, but if you don't do it, if you're someone like me, you think something through as you're talking.  And I don't think people need to see your workings out live during an interview.  I think people are looking for clarity, you need to be relatively concise because you want to give them space to ask you a number of different questions, you want to make sure that you're not waffling, and you never know exactly what people are going to ask you. But a couple of things that I think typically come up, and again, a recruiter said this one to me, which I thought was very smart.  She said, "Always make sure you just know your narrative".  So, why are you interested in the role?  Why are you a good fit for it?  Obviously, that's a good opportunity to start sharing your strengths. 

They were saying to me, "It's very rare that you have an interview where you don't get asked about something around like a challenge or an obstacle or a setback, because people want to see how do you deal with stuff when things don't go well.  And actually, I did then put into ChatGPT, "What are the most common interview questions?" and you get a really good list and I think I got 16 very quickly, and I just thought all of those make sense.  If you've worked those things through, you might not get asked those exact questions, but you'll probably get asked something along those lines. Then the final thing is, make sure you've got some thoughtful questions ready to go.  One of the things that surprised me when I was having these conversations yesterday, they said that they've not been sure about someone until they ask some very good questions at the end.  And it's an opportunity towards the end, which is what people remember, recency bias, for you to stand out, or if you feel like maybe you had a few things that weren't quite so good, you've got this moment where you can have a really good impact.  And it's often useful to not do the obvious ones, but to try and be a bit more maybe strategic. 

So, show that you've really done your research.  If it's not come up so far, ask something about like, "Oh, I noticed that the company's been posting on LinkedIn a lot about the importance of age diversity at work.  I find that really interesting", you know, like try to connect some dots, and I think people will often be impressed by that.  And then, I think it is nice to ask something a bit more specific to the person you're talking to.  So, "I'd be really interested just to know a bit more about what you really enjoy about the role that you do", just because that gives you an insight into culture. But I'm not sure I would want to say, "What's the culture of the company?" because then you get the standard answer or the what's-in-the-annual-report answer.

Helen Tupper: I also think you're not in control of every question they're going to ask you.  So, you might not be able to have your perfectly prepared responses for those things.  But the perfectly prepared questions do give you a bit of that.  You can sort of have that impact that you want because you've got those questions at the ready.  On the point of preparing, I had a brilliant night last night.  I did some interviews.  That what I should have said, actually, my most recent interview --

Sarah Ellis: Was the one you did last night that you were WhatsApping me about.  You were like, "I've just interviewed as the CEO for Microsoft"!

Helen Tupper: Oh my gosh, everyone, I've got a brilliant bit of software for you, yoodli.ai, not sponsored.  It's a great --

Sarah Ellis: If only we ever sorted out sponsorship!

Helen Tupper: If only we ever did that on our actual podcast!  It's absolutely brilliant.  So, you go on and you can put in what job, so I just put in "CEO of Microsoft", for a bit of a joke, to be honest.  So, you can put in what job and what company, and then it basically asks you questions that you would likely get in that interview.  So, a speaker comes on, like one of the questions that I got was, "How would you foster a culture of innovation and creativity within a company?"  I mean, I was suddenly just, I just answered the question.  So, you're on camera and it's recording you and you're just saying your answer, and it asks you about three questions.  So, I think I was talking in total for about two and a half minutes.

Sarah Ellis: Okay, not too long then?

Helen Tupper: No, it says 45 seconds each.  And what it then does is it saves all your answers and it gives you feedback.  So, I got, for example, "Feedback on question 4: great job addressing the different metrics to measure success.  Overall your answer demonstrates a structured and strategic approach".  And then it says, "Consider the following.  Try to speak more confidently and avoid using filler words".  And then all my answers, it's given me live feedback, and then you get loads of analytical stuff like what percentage of fillers, how many weak words did you use, how concise were you.  I think this is a brilliant low-pressure way to practise, because I think the only time you practise is in an interview situation that's quite a high-pressure moment for loads of different reasons.  And I think using a tool like this will really help you to refine your responses; super-useful.

Sarah Ellis: And I guess if you're someone like me, where you might sometimes dive a bit too deeply into things, you could get a bit preoccupied with, "Well, I'm going to practise until I have no filler words", and obviously that's not the aim for practising for low-pressure practice.  So, what you're not trying to do is the perfect interview.   I think it's just the nature of saying things out loud and actually, probably what Helen's described, feels more interview-like as a scenario or a situation than just saying it out loud to yourself.  Honestly, in the past when I've prepared for interviews, I've literally just sat in a room and said stuff out loud, which just feels quite out of context.  At least if you're talking to a screen, you might be having a remote interview.

Helen Tupper: I mean, you're actually getting some feedback and coaching, and I think that's probably one thing that you don't get when you're doing it on your own.  The last tip on this section of getting ready is to work out your interview watchouts.  So, that sort of pressure in an interview can trigger lots of things that can sometimes get in the way of our impact.  So, for example, maybe that nervousness might result in you talking too fast, or maybe you talk too much. 

Maybe you're a bit unspecific and waffly, like maybe the ums and errs and all those sorts of things creep in.  Maybe that nervousness means you get defensive when people question you for a bit more detail or a bit more data.  Maybe you get a bit fiddly with your hands, and you're rubbing your hands together, or doing whatever you do.  And nerves are normal, but we do want to work out what those watchouts might be, because they will potentially get in the way of the message that you're trying to share with somebody.  You don't want that.  So, knowing in advance means that you can just do something different. So, maybe you sit on your hands, or if you talk too fast, maybe you do a bit of breathing.  Or maybe, if you talk too much, you ask a question rather than keep going with your conversation.  What do you think your biggest interview watchout is?

Sarah Ellis: The more nervous I am, the less I listen, which is problematic when it comes to an interview, and I definitely have learned that the hard way.  So, I think I just know that about myself.  And also, because I prepare a lot, I've got things I want to say, and you're like, "Yes, but that might not be what people want to hear".  And so, I sort of have to go into an interview almost letting go of my preparation and be very present.  So, there's a bit about preparation versus present.  So, I'm like, "Right, I've got to be in the moment and listen".  If I am figuring something out, I repeat myself, and sometimes it's fine because you're having a conversation or you and I are chatting about something.  But in an interview, if you do that frequently, that could get distracting, a bit annoying, you're like, "Well, I heard you the first time.  I didn't need you to say that exact same thing again". I was listening to myself, which I very rarely do, on the podcast the other week, because I wanted to listen to the guest, I didn't want to listen to myself particularly, and I heard myself do it.  And I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's me", and it was clearly because I was thinking something through. Helen Tupper: That's so brutal, isn't it, when you listen to yourself?

Sarah Ellis: Very brutal.

Helen Tupper: It's so annoying!

Sarah Ellis: And then, I can talk too much, which is probably linked to the repeating yourself, so just going on a bit too long.  You know the whole, "Say what you want to say and then stop"?  I always have that in my mind, but the confidence to stop talking.

Helen Tupper: I think mine is, I know that sometimes my energy and enthusiasm and excitement can sometimes be a bit overwhelming, because I just start with it.  And so, I don't let anyone warm up.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, you're like, "Wow!"

Helen Tupper: Exactly, a bit, "Whoosh!"  That's what's happening, a bit of that!  And then sometimes, I think I can also sometimes stop too soon.  When I've said something, I'm like, "That's all I've got to say on that matter".

Sarah Ellis: You're the opposite to me, "I've said it, done, have I got the job?"

Helen Tupper: "Would you like to talk any more about that?"  I'm like, "No, I have said my point"!  I think sometimes, I'm this weird mixture of like, I talk really fast with lots of energy and then once I've said it, I've said it.

Sarah Ellis: You stop, really abrupt.

Helen Tupper: Yeah a little bit too abrupt.  So, yeah it's a surprise that we've actually got a job.  But we employ each other basically.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, maybe that's why!  Maybe we should interview each other.  And one of the things that we've both used is, so you've prepared for your interview, you're getting ready, you've done your research, you've practised your questions, you've thought about your interview watchouts.  I think it is really useful to then just think, "I'm not trying to be everything to everyone, and what I'm trying to do is be me as best as I can be in what is a difficult situation, and so how do I want to show up?" and just have three words that you take into the interview with you.  So, I always think, "If I am optimistic, considered and committed, if that's what people said about me as a result of spending time with me, I would feel really good about my impact in that interview".  I might not get the job, but if I didn't do those things, I think I would be disappointed in myself.  What are your three words, Helen?

Helen Tupper: I'd want people to think that I was positive, that I was very driven, and that I was someone that can change things.  You bring me in if you want a catalyst, a transformative change person.

Sarah Ellis: Oh, well I would say those things are true.

Helen Tupper: Well, you too.

Sarah Ellis: I feel like you probably don't give people any choice, right, because you go with so much energy, you're like, "I will transform you and I'm just going to get started, shall I?"

Helen Tupper: "Show me the way to the door right now"!

Sarah Ellis: I would say it's just easier to say yes to you and just be like, "Sure".

Helen Tupper: "Off you go"!

Sarah Ellis: So, part two: in the moment.  So, you're now in your interview, and the first point we want to make, as we've talked about already, or briefly mentioned, is around listening.  I do think it is very easy to be distracted by how you're feeling, the fact you're nervous, you're hot, you're sweaty, meeting people you've probably never met before.  There is an awful lot to overwhelm your brain and your senses, and so really make sure you listen to what people are asking you, and answer the question because if you try to do something different, then it's just so obvious. 

I think it's just really clear you've either gone, "I'm just going to ignore that question", and it just shows that you're not making that effort, I think, to really understand what's important.  You're going, "This is important to me but it's not important to you".  That's not what that's not what someone has asked you.  And I think if you really struggle with this or if you know you just find it hard to concentrate, I think it's absolutely fine to scribble some stuff down.  I think it's fine to have a notebook and as you're listening to the question, scribble down a couple of key words that you might want to refer back to.

Helen Tupper: It's almost easier and less intimidating to do with virtual interviews as well.

Sarah Ellis: Yes.

Helen Tupper: I think, if you're in an in-person interview, have you got that desk and that -- you have to get your stuff out, don't you, on the table in the room you're in; whereas virtually, I think it becomes really easy to just have a pen and paper next to you, and sort of less intimidating to do that.

Sarah Ellis: And I think just remind yourself, it is okay to take a pause before responding.  So, if you do need some time to think, you can say out loud, "I'm just going to take a moment to think a bit about that".  And then you can say what you think.  I actually did do that in that interview, to be fair, the one I didn't get.  But there was one question where I thought, "That is not an easy question, and they are asking for my point of view.  I've got a few thoughts, but I just need to collect my thoughts", but I did need a couple of seconds, and I was really glad that I did that because I think I was better because of it.  So it's okay, I think, just to slow down, just to give your brain that moment to get a bit of clarity, to be like, "What's my best example?" or, "What's the thing that I really want to say?"  Like, if you rush in, you might miss that brilliant thing that you want to say.

Helen Tupper: The second thing in the interview that's really useful is mirroring.  And this is one that I have to work on.  This is why I need the self-awareness of what are my watchouts, because mirroring is where you create connection by adapting your approach to meet and match somebody else's.  And you're not trying to copy them, you're not trying to be inauthentic, but what you are trying to do is meet them where they are.  So, for example, I know that that energy and enthusiasm I have means that I talk too fast.  But if I was being interviewed by Sarah, that wouldn't be a very good approach for me, because Sarah is not super, super-pacey in a conversation.  She's thoughtful, reflective, you're quite pause-y, your questions are considered.  And so if I was in an interview with Sarah, Sarah's interviewing me, it would be much better for me to mirror Sarah's pace, rather than just be like, "I'm enthusiastic, energetic Helen, and here's me, who I am"; much more effective to think, "Okay, well Sarah's a little bit quieter, there's more pauses, there's more consideration, so how can I adapt my approach to mirror some of those behaviours?" It isn't necessarily just about the conversational pace, it could be about the types of things they talk about. 

Sarah, as an example, would talk more about stories, for example, very people-orientated, also quite future-orientated, like where is it going, what could this look like, kind of more visionary.

 Whereas I've worked with other people and other organisations who are much more data-driven, like what's the impact, what's the stats; or much more commercial, what was the value of that opportunity.  And just recognising pretty quickly what are some of the behaviours or the words or the way that that person is engaging in this interview and thinking, "What could I adapt to just mirror some of that?"  It will help you just find that point of connection in the conversation that might lead to a better interview outcome.

Sarah Ellis: So, when you are structuring your answers, I do think it's helpful to have a bit of a default for, "How am I going to share what I've done; and how am I going to try and bring those examples to life?"  Now, you might be amazing at this naturally, in which case brilliant, but I would always want to have a bit of a structure in mind, partly because it'll stop me waffling and also probably also help me to stop talking, because otherwise I'll just keep describing and then I think it can get a bit boring.  So, maybe think about this, a story, a stat, and a so-what. 

So, your story is what happened.  Just be careful you don't get overly descriptive, but you've got to give people enough context about the situation.  I think it's useful to throw in a stat, but a stat doesn't always have to be numbers, it doesn't always have to be something commercial.  From and to, is how I would often think about it.  It's like, "Oh, from: we used to run workshops for 20 people and we now run workshops for 2,000 people".  So, I think a from and to can be useful. Then the so-what is, I always think, the bit that people care the most about, because that's the sort of the ownable uniqueness that you can share.  So, what's the difference that it made?  Why was it good that you were there, that you were the person doing that thing?  And of course, you've always got to have a bit of a balance between the I and the we, but people are interviewing you.  So, I think you've got to figure out how you can talk about your experience in a way that feels right for you.  Of course, you might recognise and acknowledge other people's contributions, but if there is one time to really talk about the impact that you have made and the things that you are good at and proud of, it's probably now.

Helen Tupper: I wish I'd had that structure, because I think I used an old one that just felt, I don't know, it didn't feel that human.  I think story, stats and so-what's just feel like a very normal way to talk about it.  And I think the more normal you can make this, you'll come across so much more natural and less nervous, I think, in the conversation.

Sarah Ellis: And it feels quite flexible.  So, to Helen's previous point, people could then ask follow-up questions and they could go wherever they were interested.  So, if I've given you a story, a stat and a so-what, you might really want to dive into the so-what now.  Or you might go, "Oh, talk to me a bit about that from and to.  How did you get from the 5 to the 2,000; how did you track those numbers?"  And you can also start to spot where are people going?  What's the bit they're most interested in?

Helen Tupper: One thing to just note when you're giving people answers about your experience is not to ignore the value of sharing your insights and ideas as well.  So, when you talk about those stories and stats, they're a little bit past focus like, "This is what I've done.  This is what I have achieved", and there's definitely lots of value to that because it will indicate lots of your credibility for the job that you're going for.  But actually, what we also want people to do is see your potential beyond what you've already done, and that comes from the insights that you've got like, "This is what I know about this industry.  I think it's really interesting that that is happening", for example.  That shows that you're curious, that this is something you're actually quite passionate about.  And then those ideas, because then you can say, "One thing that I think would be really interesting to explore in the future is X, Y and Z". But I think when you are sharing experience, insights and ideas, that has a lot more value for that interviewer.  You're offering more and you're also much more unique as somebody in that moment than someone that's just talking about lots of things they've done before that point in time.

Sarah Ellis: And then finally, the interview's done, you're taking a deep breath --

Helen Tupper: I feel like that breath, oh, I'm remembering the ones that I've been in!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.  I think if you can, add in 30 minutes post an interview for you to reflect.  It's quite an unusual moment where you can get some insights into you.  And I think if you leave it, then often we miss the moment and your memories are never that good.  So, if you can, just keep your diary clear if it's a virtual interview, or if you can go and get a coffee if you've been somewhere, and just ask yourself a couple of questions.  And I would probably have these written down beforehand, because I'm never going to remember them straight after interview; I'll be like, "I don't want more questions". So, what are you proud of?  So, let's start with what went well.  And it could have been an absolute car crash.  I have had interviews that were absolute car crashes, but there's always something to be proud of.  There'll have been something, even if you made it through the moment.  What questions surprised you?  Good data for the future.  What did you learn?  And what are your even-better-ifs for next time?  So, you can do all of this for yourself.  It might feel a bit like, "This is a bit intense to do straight after an interview", but I'm talking about ten minutes of either just thinking about it or jotting down some notes really quickly.

Helen Tupper: I did actually have an actual car crash after an interview once!

Sarah Ellis: Did you?!

Helen Tupper: Because I was so -- well, I mean car crash sounds dramatic, but it was my interview for Capital One and it was so tense, because it was one of those interviews where they put a whiteboard up.  I mean, I half loved it and I was half like, "Urgh!".  They gave you one of those scenarios of like, "you're in Mumbai and you've got this much money and this much time..."

Sarah Ellis: Oh, no!

Helen Tupper: "… and there's a train, there's a car, there's a boat, and you've got to get from here to there, but there's this problem", all these things --

Sarah Ellis: I'd be like, "I'm sorry, I can't make it!"

Helen Tupper: -- how are you going to do it?  And I just remember thinking, I love those challenges, but it was high pressure and there was also very high intellect in that organisation.  Anyway, I did the interview and then I think I was so tense when I came out, I just remember, you remember where Capital One is?

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.

Helen Tupper: And at that point I drove what was called the Golden Bullet.  It was my grandad's Nissan Micra.  And I was so tense that I reversed out of that car park and drove into somebody's boot!  I was just so like, "I need to go"!  So, I actually had a car crash; it would have been much better to sit and reflect on those questions.

Sarah Ellis: I do wonder if, I bet everyone has a funny interview story like that.  Because I was just thinking, when we were at university together, we did in-company placements for a couple of years.  And one of the ones that I interviewed for was Rolls Royce.  And they took you around their museum, I think is probably a better word than factory, so it's like showing you the engines and things.  And my heel broke, and this was the 1990s where you had to wear quite high heels for an interview, very old-school, and the heel broke and went through my shoe, like into my heel.  So, my shoe filled with blood, so it was really bad.  And obviously, they were making you walk around this thing first.  So, all I could think about in my interview, when they were asking me questions about currency and stuff was, "My shoe is definitely filling with blood".  And then I was like, "Oh, I'm going to walk and it's going to spill out"! I mean I was 19 and you know when you're just thinking, "How has this happened to me?"  And they were asking those kind of questions which are not my favourite kinds of questions.  So, I got offered that job, but I think they were so desperate for women, I think they were like, "I'll take anyone".

Helen Tupper: "We'll take the one that was hobbling around the museum"!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, in the ridiculously high heels!

Helen Tupper: Same time, Sarah and I have known each other for a very long time, but at the same time, those interviews, I was being interviewed by Coors.  And you know the informal interview situations?

Sarah Ellis: Oh, I was there.

Helen Tupper: Were you there for the dinner when I got everyone lost?

Sarah Ellis: Oh, yeah.  And I was like --

Helen Tupper: Do you actually remember that I got everyone lost?

Sarah Ellis: -- I can never go and work for Coors because they make you go out and socialise, because it's a beer, for anyone who doesn't drink.  And I was like, "This is awful.  I don't want to go and work somewhere really sociable".  I just remember you getting up, and --

Helen Tupper: I know, I loved it, but I got everyone lost in Nottingham.

Sarah Ellis: -- we weren't really friends at that time.

Helen Tupper: We weren't friends!  We weren't unfriends, we just weren't friends then.  And we were in like an informal dinner out.

Sarah Ellis: Awful.

Helen Tupper: Obviously, it was a job that was quite social, so that was part of what we were being interviewed about.  And I just remember really confidently taking everybody the wrong way.  I mean, in my head it was the right way, and then I got everyone lost and I think I just recovered really quickly and I think they probably valued that because I did get offered that job!  I was the only person that got offered that job and I didn't want to do it on my own.  Oh dear, memories of interviews.

Sarah Ellis: The joys of interviews.

Helen Tupper: Share, we would love to hear some of your interview stories.  Please, if you've got funny interview stories, email us helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com, because it will be the most fun thing that lands in our inbox.  Please share!

Sarah Ellis: Also, it makes you feel better about a bad situation, right?

Helen Tupper: Yeah, totally.  So, after you've done that reflection and you've not got a heel in your foot or crashed into a car, send an email to say thank you.  Just get in touch with the people you've had the interview with, or the people that have been part of the process, to thank them for their time.  Also, if you've got any relevant links, I think often you come away and you think, "Oh, actually, on reflection…", maybe you mentioned an article that you read that they didn't know about.  Send that to them.  What have you got to lose by sharing some of those things?  I think the best thing that you can come away with, other than the job itself, is a connection that can help in your career, and it's that follow-up that will lead to those connections.

Sarah Ellis: We actually do have someone in our team now who didn't get the job the first time around, did exactly that, and then did get the job later on, so I've seen that work in practice.  And then final thing, and I'm sure you would all do this, and it doesn't always happen because not everybody has the capacity to do this, but if you don't get the job, see if they'll give you any feedback.  It depends a bit on probably the type of job you're going for and how many people are going for it, but I always think the best interviewers, and certainly organisations, will try, if they can, to at least give you some pointers for feedback, and then that can just be really helpful for the future.  I think it's hard, isn't it, because people interview lots of people and they get lots of applications.  But certainly, I've had really good quality feedback previously from a couple of interviews that have really helped me for the future.

Helen Tupper: So, we will summarise all of those different tips for your interviews in the PodSheet, which you can get either in the show notes on Apple or head to our website, which is amazingif.com and go to the podcast page.  Whilst you are there, you can also sign up for PodMail, which is a weekly email that goes out every Tuesday, and it basically puts everything in one place.  So, you'll get the PodSheet there, you'll get the PodNote, which is a swipeable summary, you'll get a video of the last PodPlus that we did, that happens most Thursdays.  And if you do want to come to a PodPlus, you can find the link on our website, amazingif.com, and you can take part in the conversation that we will have about whatever topic we've been focusing on that week.

Sarah Ellis: So, thank you so much for listening.  If you do have an interview coming up, we wish you so much luck, we hope it goes well, we know that they are hard.  We hope this has been helpful.  Let us know.  Let us know what we've missed or what else you think we should include so you can help to support other people in their Squiggly Careers.  But that's everything for this week and we'll be back with you again soon.  Bye for now.

Helen Tupper: Bye everyone.