Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction

00:01:56: The benefit of curiosity osmosis

00:03:32: Idea for action 1: the random act of curiosity

00:04:28: Idea for action 2: monthly curious career conversations

00:05:47: Go-to guru

00:06:00: Relevant podcast episode

00:06:08: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Helen Tupper: Hi, I'm Helen.

Sarah Ellis: And I'm Sarah.

Helen Tupper: And you're listening to the Squiggly Careers podcast.  And this episode is part of our Squiggly Skills Sprint series, where we've recorded 20 episodes, each of them are less than seven minutes long, to help you build some career development momentum.  In each episode, Sarah and I are going to talk about a Squiggly Skill, what it is and why it matters, we're going to share an idea for action from each of us, give you a go-to guru and a podcast episode so that you can listen and learn a bit more.  And we really, really want you to turn this Squiggly Skills Sprint into your own learning streak.  And for anyone who lets us know how they're getting on and who completes the 20-day streak, we can't prove that, so we trust you, but if you tag us that you've done the sprint, you've completed the streak, then what we will do is we'll get in touch with you and we will invite you to a free Five Skills to Succeed virtual workshop that Sarah and I are going to be running in September, so we can help you dive even deeper into the world of Squiggly Careers.  All you've got to do is tag @amazingif in any of your social posts, and then we'll be in touch.

Sarah Ellis: So in this skills sprint, we're talking about one of my favourite topics, curiosity.  And I will start with the brilliant Ken Robinson, who said, "Curiosity is the engine of achievement".  And I think connecting the dots between curiosity and achievement is something that would really help us in organisations, because often it might feel like a nice-to-do, or often I do hear people say, "Well, I haven't got time for curiosity", or, "It has to be outside of the day job", and I think we should be adding curiosity into our day jobs rather than seeing it as something separate.  Because we know that when we're more curious and when we're collecting lots of dots, it does mean we can connect dots in new ways.  So that's when we spark new thinking, spot new opportunities.  And I don't think we succeed in our Squiggly Careers by doing things in the same way and the way that we've done things before, because otherwise you get a bit siloed and head in the sand and stuck in your lane, and it's really easy for that to happen. One of my favourite interview questions to ask is, "How do you stay curious in your job today?" and so often that is the question that stumps people where people get a bit stuck because they suddenly realise, "Oh, I've been doing my day job, I'm working really hard at that, but actually, maybe I've lost that curiosity", because we just get very focused on tasks and getting jobs done.  That's very understandable, but I think we miss out on being as brilliant as we could be if we don't stay curious.

Helen Tupper: I am that person.  I love curiosity, and I see the value of my impact is much better and my input when I've been curious, but I almost have to sometimes remind myself to do it, which will lead into my idea for action a minute; whereas I think you don't have to remind yourself, it's part of who you are and how you work, it's just your natural thing.  And so, I have found it helpful in my career to have you in my career.  Does that make sense?  I mean, in lots of ways, obviously, generally I've found it very helpful to have you!

Sarah Ellis: Thanks!

Helen Tupper: But specifically on the topic of curiosity, because I'll borrow from you, because you'll just share something and I'll be like, "Oh, that's useful"; but also, just being aware that you're doing it sort of makes me more aware that I'm not, and I've found that very useful.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I do think that's a good general point.  It's not either of our ideas for action, but I think, for example, my youngest sister is way more curious than I am.  And so, the same thing happens, like curiosity osmosis.  So, find that person who are like, they seem to be able to -- they're always doing something interesting or reading something.  My sister already this week has sent me a screenshot of an extract from a book where she's like, "This feels Squiggly", and I'm like, "Okay, so what are you reading?"  And then, again, like you say, it partly reminds you, but also you just get new stimulus.  So what's your idea for action here?

Helen Tupper: Mine is the random act of curiosity, because I think I fall into sometimes routine acts of curiosity.  So, I will look at the same websites for my insights and I'll use the same apps for my information.  And the thing that really helps me is when I shake it up a little bit and I go a bit more random and I go, "Oh, okay, well, what are you reading?"  I'll think, "Oh, I've actually never been to an event with that".  Or like recently, I was going on masterclass.com and I watched a course all about jazz composition.  Now, I can't play music and I happen to like jazz music, but I was thinking, "That creative process of how jazz happens, I wonder if I could learn something in that that could be useful". I think with the random act of curiosity, it doesn't always have to be useful.  That's the thing, you take the pressure off, you're just intentionally putting your brain in a different place and letting your brain do the hard work for you, like the collecting; your brain will do the connecting, you've just got to do the collecting and not constrain yourself too much about what that information is or where it comes from.

Sarah Ellis: My idea for Action is to have one curious career conversation every month.  So, I just find if in my diary I'm not spending time building relationships beyond the ones that I need to do my day job, I'm limiting my learning.  And it always feels hard to sometimes say yes to those conversations because they never feel like a sort of obvious priority.  You're not progressing a goal or an objective that you've got written down somewhere by having that conversation, but I always make sure I make space for at least one.  And I spot in my diary, I almost label them, "Oh that's my curious career conversation for this month".  And sometimes I might have two, but I try to never have none, because then I just find that, again to Helen's point, otherwise you get a bit too routine and you're not getting new stimulus. If I'm being really honest, sometimes I'll see those conversations in my diary and think, "I haven't got time for that", but I have never once regretted a curious career conversation.  And I call them curious career conversations, but I think you could just call them curious conversations.  I'm not chatting to somebody about their job necessarily, I'm really just getting a window into their world, being intrigued, being interested, and just seeing what I've got to learn.  And I think it has two benefits.  You expand your career community, but you just always learn something new.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, totally agree.  The energy that I get from those conversations is always worth the effort.  So, our go-to guru on this topic is Sarah Stein Greenberg, who wrote the book, Creative Acts for Curious People.  It's a really, really good book to read.  It's sort of like a light book to read, like you can flick in and flick out of it, but there is a lot in it.

Sarah Ellis: And if you'd like to listen to Sarah in action, you can hear her talk to me in episode 249.

Helen Tupper: Sarah times Sarah!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.

Helen Tupper: Thank you for listening to this Skills Sprint, we hope you found it useful.  We would love for you to subscribe so you don't miss any of the sprint episodes in this series, and also to let us know how you are getting on, tagging us in your posts.  But that is all for this episode, so bye for now.

Sarah Ellis: Bye everyone.