Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction 00:01:31: Why this topic is being covered 00:03:04: Some key concepts 00:04:08: The language of manifestation 00:11:36: Manifestation equation… 00:15:35: … intent 00:22:24: … thoughts 00:25:58: … feelings 00:32:01: … actions 00:36:10: … flexibility 00:37:19: An alternative manifestation equation 00:00:00: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Sarah Ellis: Hi, I'm Sarah. Helen Tupper: And I'm Helen. Sarah Ellis: And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we talk about a different topic to do with work and share some ideas for action that we hope will help you, as well as us, to navigate your Squiggly Career with that bit more confidence, clarity and control. Helen Tupper: And if you ever want a bit more support than the episode that you might be listening to, we've got lots of it.  You can be part of the Squiggly Careers community.  You can do that by signing up to PodMail, so you get a weekly email with all of our resources to help you to take action; and if you want to join the conversation, you can be part of PodPlus, which happens every Thursday at 9.00am, and it's just me and Sarah, or sometimes Sarah and me together, delivering a 30-minute conversation, and it's such a lovely community where people share ideas and insights. The links for all of that stuff, and they're all completely free, are in the show notes to this episode.  And if you ever can't find that, because I know it's different on different platforms, just email us.  We're helen&sarah@squigglycareers.com, and we'll send you all the links. Sarah Ellis: So, Helen, do you want to introduce today's topic? Helen Tupper: Can you hear the scepticism, everybody?! Sarah Ellis: I think, more nervousness. Helen Tupper: Yeah, you are nervous about this.  It's just a topic to help people with their career, potentially, or is it?! Sarah Ellis: But is it?! Helen Tupper: Today, everybody, with that build-up, we are talking about how to get practical about manifesting your career.  I was waiting for Sarah to have some kind of cynical, or not, everyone, how to not get practical -- Sarah Ellis: I feel like we've had more conversations about whether to cover the topic than we have the topic itself! Helen Tupper: Well, let's talk about why we're covering it.  So, there's been quite a lot of noise about manifestation.  I think it's particularly fashionable right now.  There's a new book out, which has been in the Sunday Times' bestseller list for several weeks, called Manifest, so it's obviously something that is appealing to people.  It's also not a new thing, it's been around for quite a while.  There's probably quite famous books, like The Secret, or whatever it's called, Secrets, that's been around for a while, and I think it's also a TV programme. So, manifesting isn't new, but it's definitely having its manifesting moment.  And we wanted to take a practical, pragmatic, slightly cynical maybe, view into what it is; but also be open to how it could be a tool that you could use in your career development.  And given Sarah was a bit challenging about whether we should even cover it… Sarah Ellis: I basically read an article about it in The Guardian that really put me off, but I think it was slightly different to what we're going to talk about today, because I think, like most things, manifestation, and manifesting is not a black-and-white topic, and it doesn't look and feel the same for everyone, there are different points of view and perspectives on it.  I read an article that was definitely one end of the scale of manifesting and thought, "Well, if that's what it is, I'm really not sure we should be covering it". But Helen has discovered in her research some other aspects that we think are more interesting and could be helpful. Helen Tupper: So, yes, I've been researching and reading a lot.  The Post-it Notes and the pens were at the ready. Sarah Ellis: Basically I said, if we're going to do it, she's got to read loads of books about it! Helen Tupper: And I did! Sarah Ellis: She did. Helen Tupper: I took this brief, and I actioned it, everybody.  So, I think it might be useful to share a bit of a summary of some of the key manifesting concepts, and then we are going to get into a practical structure about how to make manifesting work.  If you're open to what it could be, let's get practical about how to do it. So, in terms of what the main concepts are, manifesting itself is about taking ownership for your future, so it's thinking about where you might want to be, but then taking action in the present that gets you closer to it.  Those two points together are actually really, really important, and we'll talk about that a bit more, because I think sometimes, it's all about the future focus, but without the present action, and that's perhaps sometimes where it falls down.  This is a self-empowerment and self-action tool.  It's, "Oh, that's an exciting future for me, and this is something I can do to bring it closer", it's those two perspectives we're looking for. A few other concepts come up, which we can maybe have a chat about, Sarah, about what you think about some of these, because it gets into language I think you might not love. Sarah Ellis: Do you know what, I think the language point is a really interesting one, because not only have Helen and I even talked about covering the topic, we've then talked about what it means.  We had a taxi journey together where we basically spent the whole taxi journey talking about it.  I mean, what our driver thought, I don't know!  And I've worked out that one of the things that gets in my way about this, are some of the words that are used, and the way that it's described. Once I started to make it my own and figure out, maybe when I've even done this before in the past and how it has been useful for me, then I could start to see some really helpful things that Helen started to describe to me in terms of ideas for action or tools.  But I actually had to get past the word "manifesting" first.  I don't think I will ever use that word!  I mean, never say never, obviously, with the greatest mindset, but I'm not sure that's how I would describe some of what we're going to talk about today.  But I know that some people do, and that works absolutely fine for them. So, just be mindful of that as we go through, use the words that work for you.  As long as it's something feels helpful, I think that's absolutely fine. Helen Tupper: Okay, well let's start with manifesting, then, and manifestation, because that's our umbrella term for this.  What is a term that you feel more familiar or comfortable with? Sarah Ellis: Well, when we've described what I think we're trying to help people to do, because we are looking at this in the context of career and work, I feel this is about exploring your career possibilities, about where your career could take you, about being really curious about your future, and being really flexible about what your future could look like, and then taking action in the here and now to get you closer to some of those things that you're really motivated by and you find really meaningful. Helen Tupper: So, in a word…?  That's what I was trying to get you to! Sarah Ellis: Oh, were you hoping for one word? Helen Tupper: Yeah, I'm trying to give people -- Sarah Ellis: I was like, "This is the only way I can convince myself to have this conversation is to see it through that lens!" Helen Tupper: Okay, the lens is very useful. Sarah Ellis: Okay, I thought that was quite good, I was quite proud of that! Helen Tupper: Great, I'm proud of you too! Sarah Ellis: Yeah, you sound it! Helen Tupper: If manifesting makes you, and perhaps other people listening, who might be starting in the same place like, "What is this stuff?" if you were going to replace manifesting with a word that felt more familiar or comfortable, what would that be? Sarah Ellis: Imagining. Helen Tupper: Lovely! Sarah Ellis: Thanks. Helen Tupper: Great. Sarah Ellis: Is that what you were hoping for the first time? Helen Tupper: Yes.  Okay, imaging, that might work for you.  Okay, let's take another one, Sarah.  This is the word "attraction", and the manifesting principle of the "law of attraction".  Just to give you a summary of what this is, this is the essence that positive thoughts create positive outcomes.  Basically, like affects like. So, if I think, "This is something that I'm going to do, this is something that's going to happen", it's much more likely to happen, not definitely going to, but much more likely to happen, than if I go, "This might happen, it might not, there's lots of things that could get in my way, I don't think I could do this", and therefore that I wouldn't necessarily attract that opportunity towards me. Sarah Ellis: I believe that optimism equals opportunities, so that would be how I would reframe what you've described.  I don't believe in relentless positivity, I think that's really unhelpful and quite demotivating, and I'm not sure positive thoughts by themselves create positive outcomes.  That's the bit that was making me pause for thought. So, I do believe in optimism, and that's probably because I've spent more time reading about it and thinking about it elsewhere, and I know that when we are optimistic, it helps us to do some really useful stuff, like spot opportunities, solve problems, ask for help.  So, I buy into optimism.  I'm not sure if that's quite the same thing as what you're describing with the law of attraction, which is essentially like good vibes equals good things; I would have to be convinced a bit further on that, I think. Helen Tupper: Okay.  So, yeah, the "good vibes create good things" actually links a lot to the next bit. Sarah Ellis: Oh good, vibes, brilliant! Helen Tupper: So I feel like the law of attraction is like your thoughts, this is like the energy, so this is about high vibration and low vibration; I know you're not going to love this.  But where I got to with this, because I didn't really like this, the concept is that everything around us is made of energy, everything, the things that we touch and feel, people that we talk to, people we spend time with, and what we want to do is be in a position of high energy, because that gives you that energy for action really, rather than low energy, low vibration. The closest I got to this was things that we've talked about before, with like radiators versus drains, and the idea that you spend time with people who are more like radiators, so they want to support you, they want to help you, they will maybe generate ideas, they'll come up with solutions, that sort of thing, not people who are relatively positive, but people who have that radiator energy; versus the people that are more, it's not that critical is a bad thing, but that through their -- Sarah Ellis: They suck your energy. Helen Tupper: Yeah, they suck your energy, that maybe leads you to doubt, they're demotivating, maybe they're going to distract or derail you, that sort of behaviour.  So, it's whether you think, I guess, do you think everything is made of energy, do you hold to that, and/or do you buy into this that some things or people create higher energy in you than other things and people? Sarah Ellis: I'm not sure.  I was never very good at science at school, so I don't know whether everything's made of energy or not.  Again, this is never how I would think of things, in terms of the vibration thing.  I do wonder, with manifesting, whether it is doing itself a favour, or getting in its own way, to be honest.  The more I've read about this and talked to you about it, there is some good stuff in here, but it's so easy for it to get lost, because you're talking about vibrations and everything made -- and you're like, "Oh God!" Anyway, moving on from that, I do feel that the people you surround yourself with have a big impact on your self-belief and can affect your motivation.  So, when we're then starting to think about the futures that are really motivating for us and the actions to make those things happen, at times things won't always go to plan and you'll need to be flexible and adaptable.  And I think, in those moments, having the right people around you, and that looks and feels different for all of us, and that doesn’t mean everyone who agrees with you, that means really good challengers and questioners, as we talk about with our personal board approach, I can see how that will make a difference. So, almost as if you're trying to create a bit of a, what are the factors?  If you're imaging a future or futures that are really motivating for you, what are the factors that influence your ability to get closer to that future, or make that future happen, I can see how the energy that people bring to you, that you can almost benefit from, does make a difference. Helen Tupper: Okay, so in sharing and listening, I've got a potential new language that might help people move forward with manifesting, or not. Sarah Ellis: Some people might be listening and be like, "I really love it"! Helen Tupper: Great, but everyone else, we might try and help you to buy into something that could help you with your career.  So, perhaps instead of "manifesting", "imagining" might help you; perhaps instead of the "law of attraction", "optimism" as a concept could help you; and perhaps, instead of "vibrational energy", you might just want to focus on "motivation".  So, those three things could be a reframe that might help this to be a more realistic concept for you in your career. So, I'm sort of hoping that we're buying in to imaging and optimism and motivation, and now we want to think about how we turn this into something practical.  Now, as I said, I've done a bit of research, I've done a bit of reading, I've read some things I didn't love and some things that I sort of liked, and the most practical book that I found on this topic was called Make It Happen, by Jordanna Levin, and I liked it for two reasons: one, it talks to some of the criticism about manifesting generally, in that it's just about aspiration and no action; and second, that it has an equation, which we've built on a little bit, actually, with some of our thoughts as we've talked it through and changed some words, so it feels more like us. But the equation that we're going to work through, and this will be in the PodSheet, so you can work through the structure of this, but I'll talk it through now, is that intent plus thoughts plus feelings plus actions plus flexibility, appreciate it's not that snappy, equals successful manifestation, or successful imagining.  So, what we're going to do now is talk through each one of those things in turn, what it is, and then give you an idea for action if you want to try it out, and you can get the full summary of that in the PodSheet. Sarah Ellis: Also worth saying, I think, that you have tried all these things, or had a go in various different ways, at lots of these ideas for action, and you were genuinely very enthusiastic talking to me about some of them.  So, I can see the positive impact it has had on you, having a go at these things.  So, even if it's just that, it sounds like you've had some fun. Helen Tupper: I have had some fun, and I think my context for being enthusiastic about this is -- Sarah Ellis: Not just to annoy me? Helen Tupper: No, I think I am probably a little bit more open to it anyway, however -- Sarah Ellis: I am trying very hard, by the way.  This is the really nice version of me! Helen Tupper: I appreciate that!  But also, I have felt that work has been really, really full on, and I feel that when work is full on, you get very in the moment; and sometimes I think, "What could the future look like?" or people ask me, "What do you want in the future?" and I feel sometimes like I never want to give someone an exact answer, but for myself, I want to be able to imagine it.  And when you're so full on in the here and the now, I feel like I haven't got that thing that really excites me, because I've lost connection with that thing that feels quite far away, because I'm so in the here and now. So, I think the reason I was so enthusiastic about it is, it's helped me to a bit of mental time travel, I think that's the thing.  It's helped me to put myself out of all the things that I've got to do today and this week, and think about, "What could this create for me in the future; and, am I excited about that?" and then that sort of gives me more meaning to what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis.  So, it's that time travel that I found really enjoyable. Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I suppose it helps you to zoom out and stop you being in the moment; it takes you out of the moment very intentionally, because it's all very future-focused, isn't it?  We do actually bring it back to the here and now, as you go through the process, but it does almost give you that freedom to let go of exactly what's going on in your day-to-day, and be quite creative and curious just about imagining ideas and options.  And it's that time to think. Whenever we ask people in workshops, "How much time to think do you feel you have in a week or in a month?" often that answer is zero.  People are like, "I've got no time to think", particularly not when you maybe put the lens of, "Well, how much time do you have to think about where your career could take you, or what's really important to you in terms of exploring different progression possibilities?" the biggest barrier is often, "No time or space", and perhaps, "Not sure how to do that", and I think some of things we're going to talk through now does help to fast-forward you away from where you are today, to just give you a sense of where you might go, and what that could look like. Helen Tupper: So, the first part of this equation then is "intent", and imaging, or manifesting, requires quite a lot of clear intent.  It's not about a goal, so it's not task- or outcome-oriented, so something that you're going to succeed or fail in; and it's not a wish, so something that has absolutely no action, which I think sometimes people think manifestation is just this wish for the future.  An intention is something that you practise.  So, intention is something that you are moving towards every day, and the journey towards it is as important as where you're trying to get to. The thing that I actually quite liked, that Jordanna Levin mentions in Make It Happen, is that, "Intentions are fluid and they don't fail, because they are not fixed".  It is something that is moving you towards something that feels meaningful and motivating.  And she frames the thing that I found quite helpful with this, as just a way of making it more real, is that, "Good intentions start with, 'I am, I have [or] I feel'". So, for example, if I imagine that I had an intention a couple of years ago to write a book, to write The Squiggly Career.  If I take myself back to 2018, and one of the intentions that Sarah and I had was to write The Squiggly Career, to put all of our tools and techniques into written form and get it out into the world, then what would have been useful would have been to frame that intent with, "I am a successful author" or, "I have published a best-selling book".  Those are the sorts of things that give that sort of ambition intention, when you phrase it like that.  Any reflection, Sarah, on the intention language? Sarah Ellis: This is really making me laugh!  I was thinking, I can't imagine myself doing this, if I'm being very honest, which I appreciate is quite fixed; and it feels a bit, fake it until you make it.  To me, an intention is something that you intend to do, and it's just like going, "I'm a successful author", and I'm like, "Right, well okay, that isn't what you are", and I think that feels like a stretch for me, in terms of something that I could imagine myself doing, and that I can't quite wrap my head around it, being honest.  Listening to you, when you were saying, "It's not a goal or an outcome", and I was like, "Right, okay", "And it's not a wish", so it's something in between that, I think I'm struggling then with what that could look like for me. Helen Tupper: Okay.  So, the way I've got it, and I think it's fine; I'm not trying to convince -- Sarah Ellis: "It's fine", she says! Helen Tupper: "I'm fine"; it's not fine, though! Sarah Ellis: It doesn't sound fine! Helen Tupper: My aim is not to convince Sarah of every part of this.  My aim is to explore each part of it, and understand why it might work and might not.  Where I've got to with this, because I've written all these things down and I've done them, so I think I've probably moved it forward a little bit further, I think about this as an aspiration that I've articulated with intention. So, rather than just going, "I want to be an author", aspiration articulated with intention is like, "I am", and the idea is that there's a bit more energy in the "I am" rather than, "I want", is how I've got comfortable with it.  And having practised playing with this a little bit, I have found that to be more energising.  To say, "I am this", there's something for me a bit more energising and this is something I want for my future. Now, whether you use the I am and I have or I feel, the thing that can help you just get a bit clearer about your intent, if we go to the start of this, that you need this clear intent, the first thing that you could do is you could write a job description of your dream role, your dream company, your dream business, whatever it is that feels quite exciting to you.  But we want you to get into the detail a little bit.  This is sort of the rich picture imagining.  Think about what it would say, how you would be spending your time, even if it's 20% of your time is spent working with creative people and 30% of your time is spent presenting your ideas and concepts to people to bring them to life, whatever it is, but get as specific as possible about the role, the reality, the company, the dream, effectively. So, you could write yourself a job description.  The second one, which I have done more of, is creating a vision board.  Now, I know the sceptics that are listening in might be like, "Oh no, she said the vision board thing!" because I think the vision boards get held up quite a lot, because they look quite pretty on Instagram, don't they, basically! Sarah Ellis: Yours do look pretty, I have seen yours, they look pretty. Helen Tupper: I do find them quite helpful.  So, vision boards are where you will collect some images that feel motivating, exciting, energising for you, almost like the life you'd like to have, or that you find motivating.  And that could include anything.  It could include work things, it might include how you want to spend your time.  Maybe you dream of working on a boat, or something like that, and you might put a picture of a boat on your vision board. But the way I do this is I buy quite a lot of magazines, I rip out words, I rip out pictures, even colours, to be honest, anything that I feel feels really energising to me, and then I pull it into some sort of, I don't know, future career collage, and I take a step back from it and I think, "What is this trying to tell me?  What is it, from all of these images, that feels consistent about the career that I want to have?  What are the elements or intentions within this that I want to take away from it?" Would you do a vision board, or a future job description, Sarah? Sarah Ellis: It's interesting, because I do consider myself to be a visual person and a visual thinker, and we use loads of visuals in our workshops; but I wouldn't do a vision board, I don't think, but I have done a job description that I've made up for myself before.  So, at a moment in my career where I wasn't feeling particularly motivated, and I wanted to imagine there was something different in my future, I do remember almost just writing something where I came up with my own job title, and I was thinking, "How would I like to spend my time at work?  What are the things that I really enjoy?  What do I want to be doing more of?" We do know, from Dan Cable's work, at London Business School, how motivating it is to even be able to choose your own job title; we feel a different level of connection to our roles.  So, for some reason, I tend to be more of a writer than a visualiser, when you come to stuff like this, and I have found it helpful and I have been as specific before as thinking, "These are the companies I want to work for, this is the business that I want to run". I remember having a very specific list of dream companies that I really imagined myself in in the future.  I got quite creative and had quite a lot of fun with that, and I did it in the here and now, with no really direct ability to connect the dots between where I was and where I wanted to be; but I did find that helpful, because I think it gave me some clarity about what to do and where to go, and how that might help me to get closer to these dream roles that, at that time, felt very far away. Helen Tupper: Okay, so that's point one, intention.  We've got some sort of clarity that we've created about what might feel meaningful and motivating for us for our future.  Now, we're going to make sure that our thoughts are primed to support us, so this is the next part of the equation.  The National Science Foundation found that we have 60,000 thoughts a day, approximately I'm guessing. Sarah Ellis: That sounds like a lot, doesn't it? Helen Tupper: Yeah, it does.  We think a lot, is the gist, but also, of all those thoughts, 80% of them are negative thoughts. Sarah Ellis: That just feels so high. Helen Tupper: I know, I feel like I'm not 80% negative, am I? Sarah Ellis: I know, I think even I'm not 80% negative. Helen Tupper: These people were having a bad day during that research! Sarah Ellis: Maybe. Helen Tupper: The other thing that I thought was quite interesting is 90% of them are repetitive, so stuff we've thought of before. Sarah Ellis: I do get that. Helen Tupper: It's almost, if you want to move towards a different future, possibly, than where you are today, the idea that the majority of your thoughts are negative, and that things that you thought before might not help you to get there, is the bit we want to take out of that research.  And, what you want to do is to have more positive thinking so, "What could this look like?  How does this feel for me?" so that we can create that energy that helps us with the action. So, two ways in which you can do this, that you can almost reset your thoughts, if we take that research to be reflective of our reality.  The first thing that you could do is build a bit of belief.  This is simple things like gratitude, or success-reflecting at the end of the day.  So, one thing I feel really grateful or thankful for today is my brilliant business partner who, even though being sceptical, will record a podcast with me about manifesting. Sarah Ellis: That doesn't even sound real though!  It sounds like you're looking across the bedroom at me and making that up! Helen Tupper: I'm glad we can have fun talking about career development.  That is something that I'm very grateful for.  And success-reflecting, one very small thing that has gone well for me today.  That could be anything, you managed to get a presentation done, or you gave someone some feedback, or anything like that.  So, those sorts of small actions done regularly can really help to keep you positive, even when things might be quite hard in the day; it's a good baseline for your belief, those things. Another thing that you could do is turn your don'ts into dos.  So, what I mean by this is, often we might anchor our thinking in things that we don't want so, "I don't want to do a long commute.  I don't want to work with these people.  I don't want to do this job anymore", but that is getting us into that negative loop.  But thinking more about, what do you want to do?  So, "I do want to creative people, who put their ideas into the world.  I do want to have flexibility over what I work on and how I do my work".  That can frame your mind more positively, instead of anchoring it in the things that you don't want, the negatives. Sarah Ellis: I like that one. Helen Tupper: Oh, yes, got a win! Sarah Ellis: Did you do that, or has that come from somewhere, or is that just out of your brain? Helen Tupper: I think that might have been a brain moment. Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I can see how that would be helpful.  So, when I think back to some roles and different points in my career where I can imagine this would have been particularly useful for me, I think you do get stuck in a "don't" loop, and those are the thoughts that are circulating.  They're probably the 90% repetitive thoughts that you're having.  You know what you don't want to be doing, you know that this is not right, and probably our negativity bias that all of our brains have doesn't help us at that point. So, I can see, I mean it's classic reframing, isn't it, as a coaching technique, but I can see how that would be helpful to replace the "don't" chatter that's probably going on in your brain, with "do" chatter.  That, I think, will get you that aspiration of the "do", which I think would then get you closer to the action, and I think you'd probably just feel better as a result as well. Helen Tupper: Okay.  So, the next thing is all about feelings, and the idea with this is what Sarah just talked about there; the feelings give the intention energy.  So, if there's something that you want to achieve, that feels meaningful and motivating to you, what we want to have is the energy to take action.  And, I like this from Jordanna, actually, in her book, "Emotion is energy in motion".  So, we want to create an emotion around this thing that you want to achieve, something that feels positive, because that gives us the energy, which will make us have the motion. So, two ways in which you can add energy to your intention.  So, the first thing here is that, those intentions that you wrote down, so if I take the author one, for example, and I phrase that exactly like they would say to do so, "I am a successful author with a best-selling book in career development", for example.  That would have been that intention articulated.  What you want to do there now is add a feeling onto it, "It makes me feel useful, influential and impactful", or whatever the feelings are.  But the idea is that having those feelings in mind, it's the feelings that create the energy, it's not just the intention; it's how you feel about doing that thing, which will help you to move forward.  So, that's one thing you could do, you could just add the feeling onto your "I am" or "I have" statement that you would have written down. The second thing is, those feelings that you have, so maybe if I look at my vision board and think, "That makes me feel really excited, that makes me feel really credible", or whatever those statements, those job descriptions, those vision boards create for you in terms of feelings, the second thing you want to do is focus on that feeling every day.  So, in the morning if I think, "I want to feel impactful and influential", for example, then I want to start my day thinking, "What does that feeling feel like?"  If I'm feeling impactful, if I'm feeling influential, I want to attach myself to that feeling. Now, this is where the law of attraction is supposed to kick in.  If I start my day with that feeling, "I am impactful, I am influential", then the law of manifesting, if there is a law, the process, the concept -- Sarah Ellis: It's definitely not a law. Helen Tupper: Like creates like; this is where this law of attraction bit is supposed to kick in.  If I feel that way, then I'm more likely to get that feeling back.  There was an upwards-looking eye then from Sarah.  What are you thinking about this feelings point? Sarah Ellis: It's a genuine concern that I feel worried that what we don't want to do is set people up to fail, or to be demotivated, and I'm just imagining a day where, you've got your clear, what your "am" is, your "I am", you want to do those things, and you know how that might feel; I can get how you might want to attach feelings to getting closer to that, how that would make you feel.  I got it until that point. I think then waking up each day and telling yourself that's how you're going to feel, I'm then imagining the realistic reality that happens for all of us, that you're having a rubbish day, or that you're feeling really stuck, or you've got a manager that's not great, all of those things that happen to us in the jobs that we do at some point; and then that clash, almost, you know almost like the stark contrast between where you want to go and what you're imagining and where you are right now, I'm just wondering if that makes you feel worse.  What do you think? Helen Tupper: I'm trying to make it as real as possible.  So, you know your dream company list, can you remember one of those companies? Sarah Ellis: Yeah. Helen Tupper: Okay. Sarah Ellis: Do you want me to say it? Helen Tupper: Yeah, I do. Sarah Ellis: At the time, it was based on no facts or data, by the way, everybody, so I don't want anyone to think I'd done loads of research, because I'd not; but I really liked a brand called Benefit.  It's still around, Benefit Cosmetics, and I was quite into tone of voice.  Do you know what, I'm actually still really into tone of voice!  Our team, if they're listening, will know that; I think the words we use are really important.  They had a real style and personality in cosmetics that I think I'd not really seen before, and both Helen and I worked together at boots, so it was an industry I'd worked in a bit before. I just saw what they were doing, and I thought, "That feels so different", and I found it really appealing and I was like, "It feels like it's a really exciting brand doing very different things".  It felt really innovative.  I liked the idea of the innovation and the newness and the difference.  I think that, from my perceived perspective, based on zero knowledge, that brand appeared to be delivering.  Also, I bought the products. Helen Tupper: Okay.  So, we've got this potential intention, "I'm going to work for a brand business like Benefit", for example, "It makes me feel excited, innovative that I'm doing something different perhaps".  So, this would be you starting, and it's not saying, "I am innovative", I think it's you -- I was looking at you when you were describing that then, and you were smiling, because you like innovation, you find that exciting.  It is feeling that feeling every day. Now, we've not had the easiest day.  Sarah and I have -- Sarah Ellis: You're making me talk about manifesting! Helen Tupper: I know.  So, Sarah and I have been recording, so it probably hasn't felt innovative and exciting; it's felt meaningful, because it's connected to what we do, but it hasn't felt like that.  But this is about you have a moment in your day like you just had, when you connected with that feeling of innovation and excitement, and it's bringing a smile to your face.  You're bringing that feeling to the front of your mind. It's not to ignore the other stuff that you've got going on, or perhaps some of the frustrations that you might have had in your day, but it is just having a moment where you feel the way that you might want to in your future.  So, whether that's, just spend a little bit of time really imaging what that could look like, even if it's a minute or two, it's just keeping that feeling top of mind. Now, the reason that you want to feel the feeling is because it makes you much more likely to take the action, because if Sarah has connected, just for a moment, for example, with innovation, with excitement, with doing something different, then she is much more likely to take an action, which is the next part of the equation.  It's a really important part of this, because I think too often, manifesting is all thought and feeling and very little action, and that's where I think you might get disillusioned and disappointed, and you potentially set people up to fail, with something that looks really nice on Instagram, but doesn't actually help you in your career. That action is super-important, but it doesn't have to be super-massive.  It can be something very small that you could do today.  So, Sarah, let's just take this through a moment with that example, with Benefit.  It's felt innovative, it's felt exciting, it's felt like you're doing something different.  If that was still the dream for you, if you were like, "I still want to work for that organisation in some way", what would be a small action?  I guess, take yourself back to that Sarah then; what would have been a small thing that you could have done in a week, for example, just to get a little bit closer to it? Sarah Ellis: I could have had a look at their website, just to get to know their products a bit more, maybe particularly looking at the jobs that they were recruiting for, just to see, to be honest, not necessarily to think, "I'm going to apply for it", but just to see what skills, or what sorts of roles were open at the moment.  I think I could do this, you could just justify buying some of the products and think, "One day, maybe I'll go and work there". I do remember, partly because it was near where I worked, in my lunch break I would often just go and browse, and I would read how they were describing the products, and I was always really interested in the people selling them, how they described them.  And so, I suppose, just spending time with that brand, for me, was a good way of taking action. Helen Tupper: I actually, because Sarah and I have known each other for a long time, I know this and I remember this point in time, and I think, didn't you actually write something down?  You definitely talked to me about, almost like you were going for an interview with them. Sarah Ellis: Do you know what, I'm trying to remember whether I wrote to them! Helen Tupper: I think you might have written to them.  I remember this conversation with your ideas for their products, and like a new language or branding. Sarah Ellis: I wasn't really intending to share this on the podcast, but I don't know whether -- I can't remember whether I made it up, but didn't ever send it; or, I actually made it up and sent it to them, in the hope that they'd think, "She's a genius.  We're just going to offer her a role"!  I like to think I didn't send it, because if I had and then they just didn't reply, maybe I'm not the genius I thought I was.  But I definitely took it quite far, probably because I just got quite into it. I suppose what that process did show me was just how much I liked creating stuff from scratch.  I basically set myself my own fake brief of working on a brand, what would you create; what new stuff would you do; what innovation; what would it sound like?  Practise writing as if you were in that brand.  So, yeah, I think I did take it a bit too far.  I had quite a lot of time on my hands, I think. Helen Tupper: But that's the sort of action that you could take.  But I mean I think that's a very real -- Sarah Ellis: I can't believe you've made me talk about it on this podcast! Helen Tupper: Well, it is real, and I think it's important.  I think you did a lot of this stuff without ever calling it this stuff, basically, and now we're trying to connect the dots, so other people can see how it can happen as well.  And you might not need to connect all the dots and do the whole equation; that's the point here, take the bits that are useful. So, you could do something like that, if you want to take action with action, you could take down each of the intentions that you wanted and think, "What's one thing that I could do this week?" and that could be talking to somebody, that could be almost imaging you are in the job, and doing something that you would do in that job, like Sarah talked through there. The other thing that's important with action is to make room for it.  So, there is a risk that the job that you're doing today could get in the way of what you might want to do, or feel meaningful and motivating for you in the future.  So, how could you create a bit of time, to almost spend time with this future that you're imaging the reading about it, the following, the buying the product, writing the dream job description?  Think about how you could make room for it, otherwise everything that you're doing in the here and now will hold you back from taking action with what might get you a tiny bit closer to where you might want to be in the future. Now, the last part of this equation is all around flexibility, and I think about this bit as being a bit like career karma, or the get-out-of-jail-free card for this, which is the idea that this isn't about Sarah definitely getting that job at Benefit; it is about getting closer to something that feels meaningful and motivating to you, but recognising that as you get closer to it, it could actually take you down different routes. So for Sarah, it definitely has.  She got a lot clearer on creating a role, doing innovation, designing things.  Sarah does a lot of that in the work that she does today, but it wasn't what she manifested, not that she would have used that term, but it wasn't the specific thing that she imagined.  And this flexibility thing is about being flexible about your future, having the intent, understanding what feelings it creates for you, taking actions that move it forward; but ultimately, being flexible about where that future can be, and just believing that energy and that action will take you to somewhere that feels good, somewhere that will create opportunity for you. Sarah Ellis: So, I've got a new equation for you. Helen Tupper: Do it, do it! Sarah Ellis: So, how about instead, aspiration plus action over adaptability? Helen Tupper: I'll take it.  It's shorter and alliterative, and yeah, I feel that shorter is always good. Sarah Ellis: If you're wondering whether I'm looking smug on the other side of the bedroom, where we're recording this, I absolutely am! Helen Tupper: I mean, I'm superly-smug too, because I've influenced her so much that she's created her own equation! Sarah Ellis: Well, I'm actually thinking, is that more memorable, because there's lots of aspects that we've talked about today; and essentially, I was trying to boil it down to its simple component parts.  And I think, what we are saying to people is, it is useful to think about where your career could take you, so that's your aspiration; and to do that in a way where you're clear about what's meaningful and motivating to you, you've done the imagining, so that's the aspiration.  You've got to add on the action, because you can't think your way to change and to making those things happen, and that's why it needs to be over the adaptability, because we've got Squiggly Careers and we've got Squiggly lives, so we need to be open to opportunities, and we don't want to be too fixed to our future. So, I've decided that should be what people should do. Helen Tupper: I'm really happy!  I'm very happy with that outcome. Sarah Ellis: Can we rename the podcast? Helen Tupper: I absolutely love it, everyone, I'm not even silently smug!  Thank you for sticking with this podcast for the duration, however you started from the outset.  We hope that it has given you some ideas for action to support you in your future, which is what this is all about.  It's just manifesting feels like a good start to the conversation, but it's all about you having a career as individual as you are, and this might be a way that could help you to do that. As we said, the summary of this will be on the PodSheet, you can get that from the link in the show notes.  If you ever can't find it, just go to amazingif.com or email us, helen&sarah@squigglycareers.com.  Anything that you would like to say, any last words of amazing wisdom about imagining your future, Sarah? Sarah Ellis: I would just like to say thank you to everybody who leaves reviews for the podcast, because we read every one, and they are moments of optimism for us in our week, and make me feel really good.  So, if you do have time to write a review, thank you.  If you could share us and support Squiggly by advocating, or letting a friend know that it's a useful listen, that's how we grow and how we keep scaling Squiggly, and I know loads of you listening already do that. So, I just want you to know that we really appreciate it, and thank you so much, because I suppose, when we started out our podcast, if we think back to what we were imagining, I'm not sure we'd ever quite manifested that we would have 2 million downloads and lots and lots of listeners.  I still can't imagine lots of people listening to this right now, so let's hope we've not lost any listeners today.  But thank you so much for listening, and we will be back with you again soon.  Bye for now. Helen Tupper: Bye, everyone.