How to develop your storytelling skills

Timestamps 

00:00:00: Introduction 
00:02:18: The importance of storytelling 
00:06:17: Stories come from the heart 
00:08:12: Creating community through stories 
00:10:35: Make the time and space to tell a story 
00:14:07: Practical exercises 
00:18:45: The story behind the story 
00:20:51: Career advice 
00:22:35: A short clip from The Uncertainty Experts 
 

Interview Transcription 

Sarah Ellis: Hi, I'm Sarah Ellis and this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we discuss a different topic to do with work and share some ideas, actions and advice that we hope will help you, as well as us, to navigate our Squiggly Careers with confidence and a bit more control.  And, this episode is part of our fourth Ask the Expert series, where we're covering a really great range of very relevant topics, including Uncertainty, Influence, Success, Leadership and today, you'll hear my conversation with Bobette Buster on Storytelling. 

I feel like this episode has really been crowdsourced by our Squiggly Careers community, because you told us that storytelling was a skill you were really interested in, and that lots of you wanted to improve in.  And, one of our followers on Instagram actually recommended Bobette and her book and the work that she's done.  The more I found out, the more I enjoyed reading her really practical ideas and advice, so was delighted to get the opportunity to talk to her, and I'm sure you'll find it a really useful episode. 

All of our Ask the Expert series is supported by The Uncertainty Experts, a three-part interactive documentary, which is designed to increase resilience and decrease anxiety.  I took part in the pilot and I'm going to take part again in series one, because it was so good the first time, I'm going back for more; and I can tell you it's like no other learning experience, it's really unique.  So, if you have got the time to get involved, I'd really encourage you to give it a go. 

If you do want to take part, you can sign up to be part of the series in November now.  We'll add a link into the show notes and if you use the code "Squiggly", you get a bonus discount too.  And, if you want to get a bit of a feel for what the interactive documentary might involve, listen at the end of the podcast, because there's a short clip and a bit of a snippet from one of The Uncertainty Experts, sharing their personal story of overcoming uncertainty; so, listen out for that. 

But for now, here's my conversation with Bobette.  I hope you find it a really useful listen. 

Bobette, thank you so much for joining us today on the Squiggly Careers podcast; I'm really looking forward to our conversation together. 

Bobette Buster: Well, I'm delighted to be here, thanks for inviting me. 

Sarah Ellis: So, I wanted to dive straight in on our topic today, which is all about stories and storytelling and to start with, why this is an important skill for all of us, for everyone listening, to learn, to think about, to practise, because I think sometimes, there's an assumption that maybe this is only a skill you need if you're a leader, or maybe this is only a skill that's relevant to someone who is not me, in some way, and we see people tell such impressive stories now, we have access to be able to watch these incredibly inspiring people share their stories that I think for many of us, it almost feels like quite an intimidating skill. 

So, I'd love you to just talk to us a bit about why it's important and why it's important for everyone, no matter what job you do, what level of experience you've got. 

Bobette Buster: Well, I think that we are hardwired to tell stories and to listen to stories as the only way to get to know people.  It's been said that we're in the age of story, whereas we had the Industrial Age for 350 years, then we moved into the Information Age, which was the beginning of computers and the digital era, of electronics; but now it's been said we're in the age of story, which is 24/7 stories are coming at us, we have constant access to streaming, broadcast, social media.  And, yeah, we're intimidated because there are so many expert storytellers out there. 

But the point is that we are attracted to stories, we want to submerge ourselves into stories.  We forget that our story is important, and I've always seen that everyone has a story to tell.  And, it's essential to know what your story is.  This is how we break down barriers between us, how we break down the ego definition.  And I think, especially now, with the polarisation of social media, the more we can tell our story and we can do it in short bites and succinctly, the more we create common ground.  So, I think it's essential. 

Sarah Ellis: That's interesting, and I wonder whether, when I was reading your book all about storytelling, which I love how short and succinct and specific it is, which has actually meant that I've read it more rather than less, I've actually gone back to it quite a few times, is that sometimes I think maybe one of the myths or mistakes that we might make that stops us telling stories, because it's certainly stopped me in the past, is thinking that your story has to be perfectly crafted, and that you'll maybe have to be able to remember exactly what you're going to say and how you're going to say it, because we can't help but compare ourselves to the TED talks of this world and those stories that are told that are very well crafted and are practised a lot. 

I was trying to think, prior to our conversation, what's the most powerful story I've ever told, and it was an example of where I told a story that I hadn't really thought about a lot before.  I'd thought about it on the train on the way to an event, where someone had asked me to talk about something that had been really hard in my life so far, and I was really on the fence about whether to talk about this moment in my life, because it felt very vulnerable, it felt very personal, I hadn't practised.  Unlike my usual style and approach, I'd not really reflected on it a lot and I'd not thought, "How should I structure this?" 

For some reason, and probably because I was in quite an encouraging environment, I decided to just give it a go, and so many people afterwards came up to me and thanked me for telling that story.  I think I was worried people were going to judge me, but the exact opposite happened, and it was a really pivotal moment for me, I think, in storytelling, in having the confidence that they don't all have to be perfectly crafted.  Is that something you find when you're talking to students and professionals, that we worry about, they must all be super prepared, like TED talk style? 

Bobette Buster: Well, you've just said it; it came from the heart and it was something very personal, and you had to be vulnerable and you worried that you were exposing yourself and that people wouldn't respond.  But that is precisely what a story is; it comes from the heart.  First of all, I just want to say, we are all hardwired to be storytellers.  Now, some people are more gifted at it, more entertaining; and the whole myth of the TED talk, every TED talk, and I've done one, every TED talk I've seen has been so rehearsed, if not over-rehearsed, and people can't get to that level without rehearsing it for months.  So, that is its own thing really, and people need to put that aside. 

Authenticity is what we're looking for with storytelling.  We're looking for people to be vulnerable, speak from the heart, and usually what the impulse for storytelling is, is some sort of turning point in our lives, some sort of "A-ha", some sort of, "This happened to me", and you're trying to figure it out and you're wanting connection, or you feel this impulse to let others know.  This is the source of storytelling; whereas, TED talks are frankly pontificating on an expertise and that's wonderful.  You get 18 minutes of someone's expertise distilled down to these precise minutes, but that's not authentic storytelling; those are talks. 

Authentic storytelling is when you and I relate, at a heart-to-heart level, and I learn something about life from listening to you, and you dare to share a personal experience, something that you're in a quandary about, or you just know it was important and you're trying to figure it out.  And usually, here's the key point, you dared to tell the story.  There's something about that daring, is the connection. 

Sarah Ellis: And so, when I was asking our community, particularly on Instagram, what were the barriers to storytelling, and everyone was really interested in it as a topic, so it's definitely one where people are searching and seeking a bit of support, lots of people had this sense of, "Well, my stories are just not interesting enough.  I don't think people are going to care about the stories I've got to tell.  I don't have any stories".  What would you say to those people? 

Bobette Buster: Well, first of all, I think it's the only way we create common ground.  And, when we stop and tune into someone, just, "How are you?  How are you today?  What's going on?" take just a minute.  If people realise you are serious about listening, they want to be heard, and they will tell you something perplexing, something on their mind that they just can't get off their mind, or some news; everyone has news, or some shared frustration, "Oh, my God, this happened to me.  This is the only way we create community and common ground. 

I find that it's not about being prepared, it's not about overly preparing these things; it's about having time to listen and make a person feel heard and then turning around and letting the other person listen to you.  It's a shared experience.  It doesn't need to be more than a few minutes.  What's remarkable about this is when I take the time to do this, and pretty much it's every day with a stranger, Uber driver, whatever, time expands.  When I do this with my students and it proves they're all nervous and they don't want to be uncool with each other and they're all, "What am I going to say?" and they're overly preparing, once the first two people speak in a group, and it's usually not consequential at all, it's forgettable titbits of their lives. 

The third person always has something to say that we lean into and we say, "Wow!"  We lean into it and all I say is, "And then what happened?" and people want to be heard, and it creates community.  And really, when you come out of these storytelling moments in your life, you're breathing easier, you've had an "A-ha" moment, maybe you've laughed.  But what I've also found is it somehow or other generates time. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.  Actually, as you were describing that experience, one of the things that I think we don't do enough of, or do particularly well, probably in most of the places that we work, is create enough space for telling stories and sharing stories.  And if we think about how important it is when people are collaborating to have that sense of connection and to know people, and I'm not talking here about giving people days or big, long meetings, because no one needs more of those in their lives, but I'm just thinking about how regularly in our weeks at the moment, in the work that we do, do we create any space where someone would feel the way that you've just described, where they would feel really heard, where they would be asked that question, "How are you feeling today?" or, "What's happening in your life at the moment?" just have that kind of a conversation. 

I was visualising, almost like you say, like a balloon inflating, when you get more time, when you just allow for those moments.  But it's quite interesting for people, I think, listening to think about, what would that look like in your days and your organisations?  Are there small moments that you could create that would just give you some space to tell some stories? 

Bobette Buster: Well, I think one of the things about saying, "Telling a story", is it can sound sort of twee.  I prefer to think of it as listening or tuning in to another person and shared conversation.  And the best way to share conversation is in weaving in a story like, "Well, this happened to me and I observed this and then this happened".   

But what I've seen, I'll got into a nonprofit or a charity or a corporation, and they'll ask me, they're trying to solve a communication problem.  They don't think they're getting their story out in the proper way.  And what I've found is I have to start several stages back.  I have to have people tell me what they think their company story is, what is the story they're sharing, and I find nine times out of ten that everyone has bought into an idea of the company's story that is not working for them, because that's not who they are, that's not the authentic experience. 

That is a big myth too.  And then, when you take people, you let them say that and they're all talking about it; pretty soon, people go, "Really, you thought that?  I didn't think that", or whatever.  And then I take them back and I'll say, just to change gears, "What has been your experience?"  Like, you're doing some charity in Third World countries and you have to interact with the local people, and as they begin to share authentic experiences, a new story emerges about what it is they're really doing, because they believed in the wrong story.  They took on some sort of mask of a story, "This is what we ought to do, this is our mission". 

So, what I always say is, the story is actually telling you the truth, the story is leading you to where you want to go.  This is something to get people to lean into and listen to.  I find the word "story" now is being used so broadly that it's taking on a life of its own, that I sometimes feel it's watering down its real impact.  And, what I guess we're talking about here is an authenticity of discovering, and I see storytelling as discovering more about yourself in these times, as you connect to others. 

Sarah Ellis: You share in the book lots of practical storytelling exercises, which you're very much encouraging people to try out, and there was one that I particularly liked where you suggest that we should try, "Tell us something about yourself we wouldn't otherwise know".  And as you were there describing that process of sharing experiences and discovery and being really curious about people, to me that question just invites that intrigue, to share something that we wouldn't know already.   

Even not knowing the answer, I feel you've used that word "lean in" a few times.  I feel like you'd be really interested to learn that about the people that you work with and that you spend a lot of time with and you think, "What would that one thing be?"  And I wonder if you could, because you've got so many exercises that you could share, but perhaps just pick out one or two other ones that you just find often work really well, perhaps particularly within a professional setting, or when you're working with people in organisations, to help them to improve their ability to share stories, or to share their experiences with each other? 

Bobette Buster: Well, the "Tell us something about yourself we wouldn't otherwise know" is a major icebreaker.  It's just plain remarkable how many people have interesting backstories.  And people in the room will go, "Wow, I never knew that!" and they've been working with this person for years.  And then there's a sort of delight, because in a work environment especially, you're wearing that mask of, I'm at work and professionalism, and you don't necessarily socialise outside work too much.  I have learned, and people in these workshops have learned the most interesting things about other people we would not have known, so that's a number one thing.  

But a second thing is to break the ice, and frankly that's what we do whenever we meet people, and usually we break the ice with something about the weather; but some shared universal experience we can all be guaranteed to have an opinion about.  So, I like to start with that.  For several years after September 11, and I have taught all over the world, just simply start with, "Tell us where you were when you understood what was happening on September 11", not any opinion, not days later your sorrow, but what were you doing.   

It was just so powerful to hear everyone around the world what they were doing with their lives when their whole consciousness was arrested and changed by this major world event.  Everyone was leaning in, it created such a hard felt sense of community, because it was something we each shared, and yet every person had their own unique perspective on it, their extraordinary detail, and it created a sense of, we wanted comfort, we wanted unity, we wanted to come together. 

I adapted that exercise to, "Tell us where you were when COVID fell", because it was sort of the week of 11, 12, 13 March, when all of a sudden we knew the world had shut down.  And it was a similar sort of thing.  It wasn't about death and the fear of the pandemic; it was more about just the utter shock of, wow, the world could turn so quickly, and the pandemic pause, what was that like.  And I like to turn the conversation to, "What positive thing happened to you during the pandemic pause?" and that gets people thinking about, "Well, you know…", they look at it in a different way. 

But the important thing here is to find a universal subject we've all shared.  Each of us all have our own personal experience of it, and it creates a connection.  Back in our primal days, the campfire experience, there was the dark all around us, only the light of the campfire.  We looked into the campfire and storytelling began there, because how are we going to get through the night.  And really, it was the outliers apparently, who dared to leave the tribe and go over the hill and see what was on the other side of the hill, they go, "Oh, my, there's some blueberry bushes.  Let's go over there" or, "There's better bison over the hill.  Let's go hunting there", and people around the campfire couldn't wait to hear the story. 

That's how we advanced, is by venturing out and coming back together in this cohesive environment.  So, what we're doing is really generating what is essential, it's like giving to us. 

Sarah Ellis: And I appreciate this is probably an impossible question, but perhaps there's an example that you could share with us, because I thought we couldn't have a conversation without me asking you this, because I was just really fascinated to know whether you have either a favourite story, or just a story that has really connected with you that's had a really positive impact on you? 

Bobette Buster: I would say the way I really want to answer that is what I learned in listening to stories all over the world.  I have heard just jaw-dropping, amazing stories from people you would never expect.  And what I've noticed now is that everyone, when they're telling a story, basically they're telling you of a threshold moment in their lives, a threshold where they had to choose to do something different, where something bowled them over, knocked them over, something woke them up.  They need to share this, they need to say, "This happened to me.  This fork in the road, this terrible experience, this thing that blindsided me" or something like, "What do you make of this?" 

Everyone is telling you about a threshold moment, and they want to get a connection of, "Really, that happened to you?  Wow!"  They want to share it; the idea that you're actually listening to people's awakening to their better selves, or what you hear is someone awakening to a tragic truth like, "I did this thing and I wish I hadn't", and it breaks your heart, but it's a kind of confession.  Again, they need to be heard, they're willing to be vulnerable. 

So, what I do is I listen ultimately to the story behind the story, and then I try to lead the person to listen to what their story is telling them.  That's become what's so fascinating to me about storytelling, because we're all just skimming the surface as we meet each other every day.  I just think it's really important to tune in to those undercurrents. 

Sarah Ellis: And, just before we finish, we always ask our experts this, and you've given lots of brilliant advice and ideas and insights on stories today.  But if you were going to share just one bit of career advice for our listeners, and it could be advice that somebody has shared with you that you've found really helpful, or just some words of wisdom that you've got that our listeners can learn from, what would you like to leave our listeners with today? 

Bobette Buster: Well, as far as career advice, I would say, be willing to be daring, to go into the unknown, that still small voice that's whispering to you, "Why not this?  Why not let go?  Why not do that?  I dare you to do that", because that's where your life will take off into a whole new journey, and that is the wisdom of storytelling I am imparting. 

Sarah Ellis: Thank you for listening to today's podcast, I hope you found it really helpful.  As it's a topic that lots of you told us you wanted to learn more about, I hope we've delivered on that promise; let us know, give us some feedback, get in touch via Instagram or LinkedIn, or wherever you find us.  And if you've got any other questions, please let us know too, because we always keep coming back to topics.  As we know in Squiggly Careers, none of our skills ever stand still. 

We're going to finish today's episode with the opportunity for you to hear from one of The Uncertainty Experts, so you can really get a feel for what The Uncertainty Experts learning experience is all about.  And it's a great opportunity to borrow some brilliance from people who you might not normally get the opportunity to learn from.  So, I'd really recommend investing two extra minutes of your time to hear what they've got to say. 

Katherine Templar Lewis: Hello, I'm Katherine Templar Lewis, and I'm the lead scientist on The Uncertainty Experts.  Now, Dene Donalds grew up in care.  He was the only black boy in a 1980s Midland town.  He went on to experience even more violence and abuse with a career in the army.  But like all The Uncertainty Experts, the strategies they once learned in the shadows they now use as leading lights. 

Dene is now the highest ranked light carrier in the Zen Tradition not born to the Order of Monks after his master, the legendary Thich Nhat Hanh.  Dene is one of the most highly regarded zen leaders in Europe. 

Dene Donalds: Use your breath, use your body.  When you're sitting on a chair, sometimes if breath isn't good for you, just notice the soles of your feet touching the ground.  So, you're in the boardroom, your mind's going all over the place, your body is tensing, you're getting angry, it's getting in the way of the clarity of thinking that's required to make your points, to shift the argument.  Come back to your breath, come back to the soles of your feet, come back to the present, not the future that you're going to score an intellectual point over somebody in the boardroom. 

Come back to your body, come back to your breath, allow your body to calm.  Simple, but so difficult. 

Katherine Templar Lewis: Dene is describing a simple grounding technique that is deceptively powerful, an effective way to master the mind and control the nervous system, allowing the brain to enter a pliable hyper-present state, in which you can absorb more information, a state in which the prefrontal cortex and amygdala are working in balance, with rationality not overwhelmed but informed by emotion.  It also grounds you in your body and facilitates what's known as embodied cognition. 

Embodied cognition is the idea that the mind is not only connected to the body, but the body influences the mind.  We sense and navigate the world through our bodies.  Information from our external senses and internal physical reactions to thoughts and experiences can help inform our brain.  They are the basis of what we call intuition, or gut feelings, which we often ignore.  By using cognition of our mind and our body, science has shown that we can make smarter decisions and be more adaptable to the change that uncertainty can bring.