Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction

00:00:31: What it means to be efficient

00:03:20: Efficiency and effectiveness

00:06:08: Spotting areas of inefficiency

00:13:31: Ideas to be more efficient with your…

00:14:02: … 1: repeatable tasks - checklists and templates

00:19:06: … 2: time - stop task-switching

00:23:58: … 3: meetings - subtraction

00:26:11: … 4: emails - set yourself a word limit

00:33:39: … 5: network - ask, "Who else?"

00:37:38: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Helen Tupper: Hi, I'm Helen.

Sarah Ellis: And I'm Sarah.

Helen Tupper: And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, a weekly show where we talk about the ins, outs, ups and downs of work, and try to help you with a bit of Squiggly Career support so that you have a bit more confidence and control over your career development.

Sarah Ellis: And today, we are talking about how to be more efficient and a little bit more effective as well at work, because we basically had a bit of a caveat that we couldn't just go with efficiency without talking about effectiveness at the same time.  And when you start to think about being efficient at work, it's quite interesting to explore, what do you mean by that; what does it look like to be efficient?  Because I think it's something that we all strive for, like who doesn't want to be more efficient, because in your mind you think, "Well, that's going to save me time, that's working in a smart way". 

So, I think we can see the upsides and the outcomes, but we're not always necessarily sure, like, well what does it mean I'm trying to do? When I was looking at different ways of describing it, if you look at it in economic terms, so a lot of people talk about the economy being efficient, people talk a lot about minimizing inputs and maximizing outputs.  And I was like, "Okay, I don't think I can really work with that".

Helen Tupper: It's a bit robotic, isn't it?

Sarah Ellis: It's short, but I'm not sure it helps me with like, what am I trying to do?  As somebody, I think, as well who is not naturally attracted to, or drawn by being more efficient.  I don't look at that and go, "Yes, please", in the way that maybe some other people might.  So, I was like, "Okay, well that doesn't really work for me".  And we've actually written a bit about efficiency in our new book.  So, I was like, "Okay, well, let's have a look at how we've described it there".  And this is a bit work in progress, and it's not a short, but we've written, "Not wasting energy or effort, so that you can achieve the things you want to in the best possible way".  And I thought, "Oh, yeah, I think I'd buy into that a bit more.  I don't want to waste energy or effort".  You don't want to put your energy and effort in the wrong places, you get that that wouldn't be a good use of your time.  And I like the link to achievement. 

That's probably because it's one of my values.  So I think, "Oh, well, if I'm more efficient, I'll achieve more in a way that feels smart, and I'll be smarter about my working".  Then I start to go, "Okay, I'm a bit more up for what might that look like".

Helen Tupper: I get why you're able to have this chat now, because I was thinking, you know your point around, this is not in your skills that you would be immediately attracted to?

Sarah Ellis: It's not in my wheelhouse.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, I was thinking that word!  I was like, "I can't say the word wheelhouse.  What does that even mean?"  What is like, "It's not in your wheelhouse"?  I might have to look at the origins of that word.

Sarah Ellis: Things that matter to me.

Helen Tupper: Yeah.  Well, I was thinking, yeah, this is not a skill that I think you are naturally attracted to, a bit like productivity.  I would never think, "Oh, Sarah's going to love having a chat about this on the podcast".  But I'm like, "Oh, she's surprisingly open to this chat".  I think you might have even suggested this topic today.

Sarah Ellis: I did actually suggest it, yeah.

Helen Tupper: And I wonder whether it's because you've already made that leap into the achievement.  Like, efficiency in of itself is not something that I think you're particularly interested in, it doesn't appeal to you.  But if it helps you to achieve more of what matters, then it's worth the effort of talking about it.  I quite like it because I like those words, like the productivity, efficiency.  But where I got to when I was just looking into the topic for today was this distinction between efficiency and effectiveness, and that actually efficiency on its own isn't always a really good thing.  If you just think, "How can I be more efficient?" if that's where you start and stop, "How can I be more efficient at work?" there are some risks in that approach.  

So, you can get a bit short-termist, because I could think, "Well, how am I going to be most efficient today?  I'm not going to have conversations with anybody about anything outside of my to-do list, because I'm just trying to get my to-do list done", but that might affect the quality of my relationships with those people over the long term.  Or, it might affect how much I'm learning from them or asking for help, for example.  So, one of the issues with just being very laser-focused on how I can be efficient is you're quite short-termist and you might limit your learning. Also you prioritise doing, getting the thing done, over perhaps thinking how to do it better, so improving on it, because that isn't very efficient.  It isn't very efficient for me to stop and think, "Hang on, what if I did this in a different way?  Or what if I just paused for a bit and maybe come back to it later?"  That's inefficient. 

And so, you potentially might repeat things in the way that you've always done them, which might mean that you make some similar mistakes, and you don't necessarily improve and get better for the future.  A lot of that space is where new ideas might form.  And again, space is not efficient.  Having just space in my diary to think and reflect, or do what Sarah does and go for a walk, that's not efficient. So, I think it's just important to recognise that whilst people might be attracted to efficiency, I think if you don't think about, "Well, how can I be efficient and effective", the risk is that actually, efficiency on its own can lead to some problems.  And there's quite a nice quote that probably sums this up far better than I'm doing, which is from Peter Drucker, who's a bit of a guru in the world of management theory.

Sarah Ellis: I feel like we would talk about him at university --

Helen Tupper: I know, yeah.

Sarah Ellis: -- which is a little while ago now.

Helen Tupper: I keep meaning -- it's an event that I want to go to.  They have the Drucker Forum every year and I always think, "I'd quite like to go to that" and just --

Sarah Ellis: What, quote his quotes at everyone?!

Helen Tupper: Yeah, quotes everywhere!  But the quote that we think is quite useful is that, "Efficiency is doing things right.  Effectiveness is doing the right things".  And that makes me think, "Well, I want to be efficient and effective.  I don't want to prioritise one over the other.  I want to do things right, and I want to do the right things", which I think, as we go into this episode, that's the outcome we are trying to get to, efficiency and effectiveness.

Sarah Ellis: So, a good starting point for then the five ideas that we're going to share, so we're going to share five ways to be more efficient, but before we go into those, I think it's useful just to reflect on where are you inefficient? 

So, when you think about your working week at the moment, I suspect we can all spot moments where we already know we are inefficient, and it is one of those classic areas, I think, where there is often that gap between knowing that we're inefficient, but then maybe having the energy or impetus, or maybe even just the know-how, to turn that into doing something, like doing something different.  Because actually, a couple of the ones that I'll share in a second, these have been hanging around for a long time.  These are not new areas of inefficiency. So, one of the things that it made me think about, I was like, "Oh, it's interesting how they're repeated and they're always frustrating, because they are always inefficient".  But there is obviously something blocking me going, "Well, I could make this better and it probably would help me achieve more", but I've not quite found a way through it yet.  But then there are a couple where I have, so we'll give some examples.  So, a few areas where I'm really inefficient, some of this is embarrassing, and if our team listen, they'll just be nodding along, just be like, "Yes, Sarah is very inefficient here".  So, I never know where anything is, as in I never know where any documents are.  And so, I really rely on our team to tell me. 

So, if I suddenly think, I'll know we've got the documents, so I know they exist, but then I'll think, "I have got absolutely no idea where that is".  And so, obviously that's inefficient because I can't self-serve, so I can't sort it out for myself, and then I potentially have to wait for someone to be around or available to be able to help me.  So, that has been an inefficient action of mine for ages. The other thing where I'm really inefficient is, which is an interesting one, around people's contact details.  So, I guess --

Helen Tupper: This is very specific.

Sarah Ellis: I know, but if you spoke to Sarah, who works in our team, she could give you lots of examples of where I have to email Sarah and say, "I know this person's first name.  I can't quite remember their surname or maybe who they work for, but I know we have emailed them before and I want to get back in touch with them, because I think they'll have a good perspective on something [or] I want to see if they want to have a curious career conversation".  So, in my head, I have a half-stored system of people which then Sarah in our team has to somehow help me connect the dots.

Helen Tupper: You're like a broken CRM system!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I am, that's exactly what I am.  I'm like the most inefficient CRM system of all time.  And then between Sarah and I, we're there googling, going on LinkedIn.  I mean, honestly, it does feel incredibly satisfying when we find the person.  And we do usually find them, but that would not be a surprise to her, me going, "Oh, I'm looking for this person", or maybe I can just remember the company. 

Maybe, often I can remember something about them, but then not their name like, "Oh, they're the person who told me that for a while they worked in China.  And I just remember they were really interesting on the subject of judgment.  So, I want to get in touch with them".  And you can see Sarah in our team just being like, "Oh my God, stop now"!  And previously, I was very inefficient with my to-do lists, but since the 'getting things done, one list' revolution, that's a thing of the past.  So, I'm smug about that these days.  How about you, Miss Efficient over there?

Helen Tupper: Oh my gosh, oh no.  Do you know what?  Today, I've annoyed myself with my inefficiency today.  So, I've got a phrase that Sarah doesn't like, I've got a 'hard stop' today.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I really don't like that.

Helen Tupper: I know you don't like that, but I do have a hard stop; literally after this podcast, I need to go, for a lovely evening with a friend.

Sarah Ellis: If she starts talking quicker at the end, you'll know why!

Helen Tupper: You'll know why I'll speed up!

Sarah Ellis: "Be more efficient, Sarah!"

Helen Tupper: So in theory, it is more important today that I am more efficient, because I'm working a slightly shorter day.  However, in between meetings, rather than getting on with the many things that I have on a to-do list, some of which probably would take five minutes, my inefficient thing today is I've been watching in instalments Chicken Shop Date.  Have you ever watched Chicken Shop Date?  I love Chicken Shop Date.  You're looking at me like, "Oh my gosh".  How are you missing this from your life?  You really don't know what Chicken Shop Date is?

Sarah Ellis: Because I'm writing us a book!

Helen Tupper: Yes, but this is my simulation.  Oh my gosh.  After we've handed it over, you need to get on Chicken Shop Date.  It's amazing.

Sarah Ellis: What is it?

Helen Tupper: It's a lady called Amelia, who is a comedian, who goes on dates in Chicken Shops.  And I appreciate that sounds like a really niche thing, but it's very popular and it's very funny and she's very dry.

Sarah Ellis: Where are you watching this on?

Helen Tupper: On her website, Chicken Shop Date, but it's all over Instagram.

Sarah Ellis: Well, you know, I've got a timer set on Instagram these days --

Helen Tupper: Oh my gosh!

Sarah Ellis: -- because, you know, trying to be so efficient and effective!

Helen Tupper: Stop it!  Okay, all right.  So, anyway, that has been ineffective.

Sarah Ellis: Do you know what, I really can't imagine you doing that, that's really surprised me.

Helen Tupper: I know, because like between a meeting, I'm like, "Oh, I've got five --", because my diary's been back-to-back today.  And so, a meeting's finished and rather than me going --

Sarah Ellis: You have three or four minutes.

Helen Tupper: Yeah.  And so, rather than going, "Oh, what's something on my to-do list that I could do in three or four minutes?" which isn't entirely what I should be doing, I go, "Oh, three or four minutes".  It's 11 minutes long, Chicken Shop Date today, and so I was like, "I'll just watch a bit more Chicken Shop Date.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I'm quite proud of you.

Helen Tupper: What, for wasting my time?!

Sarah Ellis: No, I feel like you're taking a break, which sometimes you're quite anti breaks.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, I suppose.

Sarah Ellis: And so I'm like, well, if Chicken Shop Date means that you take a break, that might be a good thing.

Helen Tupper: Andrew Garfield today.

Sarah Ellis: Oh, I like Andrew, I know who that is.

Helen Tupper: I know.  So, some people who are listening to this, they'll be fans, I know they will, so maybe they'll appreciate my distraction.  Anyway, that was inefficient.  And then, the other thing that I do that is inefficient and ineffective is, I haven't done your one-list Post-it note.  In front of me right now, this is what I shouldn't do, I recently bought some large --

Sarah Ellis: Oh my God, Helen.

Helen Tupper: I know, don't.  Sarah can see what I'm holding up.  So the problem is, I recently bought some quite large Post-it notes.

Sarah Ellis: Oh, that looks so stressful!

Helen Tupper: I know, wait, let me explain to people who can't see this situation!

Sarah Ellis: I can't believe we run a company together!

Helen Tupper: Wait!  So, I recently bought some large Post-it notes for a workshop we were doing with a client, and I bought maybe 200, so if you want any, I've got some quite large Post-it notes, and they decided they wanted to do something different.  So, I've been left with lots of Post-it notes.  So, I was like, "Oh, I'll just put them on my desk".  And the problem is, if I have a Post-it note on my desk, I start using them as to-do lists. 

But then I just end up with -- and so, on my desk, this is what Sarah can see.  I currently have four to-do lists written on these giant pink Post-it notes.  And the problem is, they are not the only ones.  In my handbag, I think there are another four.  And so, this is inefficient because I find it really hard to prioritise, because my lists are all over the place.  I'm just stressing myself out now talking about this.  But yeah, those are just two ways today that I've been inefficient.

Sarah Ellis: Can I also remind you of previous examples of where you have kept notes in your handbag and then we've lost them?  Just worth remembering.

Helen Tupper: I mean, don't beat me up about it!

Sarah Ellis: No, but I'm just warning you!  You know that whole like, 'don't repeat the same mistake' thing.  You just told me you've got more in your handbag and I'm like, "Oh no, that's what happened last time".

Helen Tupper: I know.

Sarah Ellis: But it's okay, because we're going to do the five ways to be more efficient.  And then I'll know where people and documents are, and you'll know what you need to do and what order and what your priorities are.

Helen Tupper: Right, let's coach ourselves better and help our listeners too.

Sarah Ellis: Okay, because we're both feeling a bit down about ourselves.

Helen Tupper: I'm like, "Oh no, this is awful!"  Right, who's going first?

Sarah Ellis: I'll go first.

Helen Tupper: Okay.

Sarah Ellis: So, each of the five ways is a way to be more efficient around a specific topic or theme, because we thought, "Well, we don't want to be too general.  Let's try and kind of focus on an area where we've also seen this work".  So, the first one is how to be more efficient with your repeatable tasks.  So, something that you do regularly, or even if it's just like three times a year, but you know there's quite a high likelihood that it's going to happen again.  And so, rather than starting from scratch each time, checklists and templates are your friends here. 

I have really come around to checklists.  So, again, I don't think I am an obvious checklist person at all, but I read The Checklist Manifesto, which is written by, he's a doctor, and so they talk about checklists in things like surgery and how useful they are.  But then, they've taken checklists into all sorts of interesting and different situations and environments, way beyond hospitals, and lots of those in kind of knowledge work where you think, "Oh, but work feels less predictable". But what he found is that checklists just help us to reduce errors that are really avoidable, but also it means you don't waste your headspace trying to remember stuff.  And I can just see, even over the last month, for example, I've done a few things that I've done loads of times before, but not done that recently, and I have forgotten stuff; forgotten stuff where I'm like, "I can't believe I've forgotten that". 

And then funnily enough actually, it's interesting, I talked to somebody about something I forgot.  I very specifically went to Paris last week with work and I forgot a travel plug, you know, like an adaptor.  And I was like, "How have I forgotten that?  You know you're going on Eurostar, you know you're going to Paris".  And it did create a bit of stress because I was like, "Okay, I've got to go and either buy one or see if someone else has got one that I can borrow for a bit". 

And it's a small, I would call it a microstress, but it was a microstress I didn't need and could have done without.  And actually, our teams have now done these brilliant checklists where if I had just, next time, looked at that checklist, you just go, "Right, have I got these five things?"  And it just makes your life easier, makes you more efficient. We had another example recently where we were advertising for a maternity-leave cover role.  And this is not the first time that we've advertised a role.  But previously, we created a template for how we advertise jobs, which is we do a kind of week-in-the-life of the job. 

We try to really spell out, "You'll enjoy this job if you like these things.  But if you don't like these things, some of this, it might not be for you".  So, we really tried to do it in our own way, which I love, because I feel like it reflects us and our values and what's important to us.  But what is so efficient about it now is when we went to advertise this role recently, we could just lift and drop that template.  So yes, of course, you've got to make it specific to that role. 

But let's say 65% of the hard work has already been done.  So, it's so much more efficient than again, each time thinking, "Okay, another blank piece of paper, I've got to create all this stuff every time". So, those things actually really appeal to me.  So, I think any time you spot something where you think, "Well, this is repeatable", even if it's not exactly the same every time, could you create a checklist, could you create a template, which at the time I think feels annoying, I would say, because you're a bit like, "Oh, it is definitely extra effort up front".  If I think about that recruitment template that we did, that took me and someone else from our team quite a lot of work, but then you have to trust that it will pay dividends further down the line.  And I suppose I've seen it.  I've seen it with the checklist, and I've seen it with the templates.  I'm quite a big advocate of those things now.  I don't know what's happening to me.

Helen Tupper: Well, I guess that's the efficient and effective thing, right?

Sarah Ellis: Yes.

Helen Tupper: Because in the moment, it wasn't that efficient, it took longer, but actually it is effective over the long term, because we now have that that's the blend of the two things.  I was also thinking about on projects, things like project dashboards for your communication, or a checklist for how you kick off a project, all that kind of stuff, quite useful.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, you're good at that actually.  You're good at -- I think my tendency naturally is, because I enjoy starting from scratch, I'll always think, "What do we need to create?  What do we need to do?"  Whereas sometimes now, because we've been running Amazing If for a little while, we'll think, "What do we already have?" not always defaulting to, you have to start from scratch.  It's like, "Oh, but we've already got these metrics", or, "We've already got this template", or, "We've already got this stuff for our brand".  We don't need to just keep creating new stuff every time.  So, it just saves you loads of time.

Helen Tupper: It does.  Actually, Lucy in our team is very good.  Lucy, she's very good at spotting me.  So, we'll be in conversation and we'll talk about an email that needs to be sent or a document.  Sometimes, I think because I'm trying to hold quite a lot in my head, I'll be like, "Oh, okay, so I think what we need to write is", and I'll start saying it and she'll be like, "Helen, we've already got something for this, we don't need to start from scratch".  And she's very good at calling.  So, I think that is also a way that you can support other people, is if you think, "Do you know what, we've already done an event, we've already done an email a bit like this, why don't we just use that as a starting point?"

Sarah Ellis: What we've done before.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, I think have one of those people who can spot that, also quite helpful.  So, the second way to be more efficient and effective is with your time.  Obviously, we have a finite amount of time and it always feels like there is more to do than can possibly be done.  One of the ways that you can be more efficient with your time is to stop task-switching.  I'm saying it like that because I'm trying to say it to myself, because I am a bit of a bad task-switcher.  Task-switching is basically where you start one thing like, "I've done this today, I started doing something". 

Actually, the task that I was doing was I went in to make a cup of tea, but what I probably should have done is finish the task before I went to do the cup of tea, because then I came back and started something else. So, what we are trying to do here is have periods of time where we stick to a task rather than switch from one thing to the other.  And part of the reason for this is, it just takes longer.  In the moment, sometimes task-switching, it might feel more efficient.  You might feel like you're getting more things done because you're working on multiple things at the same time.  But the reality is, it is really hard for your brain to stop and start in that way, and you are just slower, you're just slower as a result.  So, it's a real kind of false promise of effectiveness to do task-switching. Now, the way to do this that I think is more sort of realistic, to stop task-switching, is to think about like three things that you want to get done in a day.  So I might be like, I've got a proposal to get sorted; I need to do a bit of podcast research; I need to create the PodSheet this week, for example. 

They are a few things that I need to get done today.  And create, I think, 30 minutes max blocks of time.  Any more of that in most people's days, I think there'll be distractions and things that you need to do that mean that that's difficult.  But 15 minutes, 30 minutes, I think this is protectable time that you can literally set a timer on your diary, turn off all your devices that would otherwise distract you and just stick at it for 30 minutes.  And sometimes, fair enough, it might take a bit longer, but you will definitely get more done than if you are task-switching in that window of time.  And it'll just help you, again, make more progress on the work that is most important to you, and get it done faster.

Sarah Ellis: Do you want some stats and facts around switching?

Helen Tupper: Yeah.

Sarah Ellis: The business case for switching.  There's a lot of research.  There's a lady called Dr Gloria Mark, she's a professor at the University of California.  I mean, all of the stats are kind of going in the wrong direction around attention and sticking, rather than switching.  So she says that when we switch our attention, it takes 25 minutes and 26 seconds, apparently, before we go back to our original project.  But the bit that I find fascinating is what we don't do is go, "Oh, I'm going to switch between project A and project B", and then I go back to A again. 

What happens is you go from A to B to C, maybe even to D, before you go back to A again.  So, you don't just switch once, do you see what I mean?  You multiple switch.  And then the problem is, you have to reorientate yourself back into what you were doing before, if you're back to project A.  And obviously, that's where it then takes time. 

So, I think it is just interesting, if this is something that you do find hard, I think Helen's idea of going, "Give yourself a 15- or a 30-minute --", I like this 'stick at it', "I'm just going to stick at this for 30 minutes", probably feels realistic. I am somebody who does work for quite big blocks of time before doing any switching.  But before I start, I do tell myself what I am not going to do.  So, I will say to myself, "Right, so I'm not going to look at any social media until lunchtime", because that's part of sticking at it, "I'm going to work until at least --", I literally set myself a time of the day, so I'll be like, "I'm starting work at [I don't know] 9.30.  I'm going to work until 11.00 before I do anything else, before I get another drink, before I --".  I also leave my phone in a different room.  So, I do some very intentional, conscious things that I think stop me switching. Actually, it's amazing.

 I was reading some research about this the other day, that even if you can see your phone, I can't remember if I've said this before on the podcast, if you can see your phone, you are more likely to get distracted and to switch, and I find that is true.  So, when I left it, I left it downstairs this morning, just in my coat pocket, not actually super-intentionally. 

But funnily enough, I focused really well.  I stuck with everything I was needed to, I was doing one thing.  And then, since I got my phone at lunchtime, to check a few messages and then we were doing the podcast, I've definitely done lots -- it's been more bitty and that's fine, but then this afternoon, I actually do need to switch back to what I was doing this morning, I'll go and put my phone back downstairs again.  I think there's those little tweaks as well you can do, which will help you with that sticking at it, make it easier, I guess, for you to stick at it. Idea number three is how to be more efficient with your meetings, which is subtraction.  So, I like subtraction, because I like the idea of taking things away.  I don't know whether that's because I'm naturally quite a critical thinker, so I quite enjoy editing.  I quite enjoy the like, "Oh, it looks like that.  What would you take away? 

What could you not do?  What could you stop?"  I think I quite like those provocations.  And so, this could just look like, "Okay, well, if I made a meeting shorter", you might think, well, would that make your meeting more or less efficient?  You might need to experiment.  But I suspect sometimes, making a meeting shorter makes it more efficient, because you have to be really focused.  You have to go, "Right, what is the purpose of the conversation?  What's the decision we need to make?"  Controversially, maybe you don't need as many people in the meeting.  Maybe you could take away some of the things around the meeting that makes it feel a bit inefficient.  So, it could be too many people, it could be too much time, it could be too many agenda items. 

So, what if you just did a meeting where you were like, "We're going to talk about one thing, but we're going to do it for 15 minutes", and you're like, "That's it"? So, I think it helps you to find some focus.  I think meetings are an interesting area, because I don't reckon many people look forward to meetings.  I was testing this with a group last week and people said, not only are their meetings not useful, but there were just too many of them.  They were like, "The volume means that I can't be as efficient in my job, and often the meetings are not that efficient".  So, I wonder whether this is like a double whammy of inefficiency, like the meeting itself is not that efficient, and then also your whole job as a whole, because you're spending so much time in meetings, is also not as efficient.  So, I think anything that you can do, you know, could you take yourself out of a meeting, which always feels a bit worrying, doesn't it, because you're like, "Oh, but am I missing out?"  But I suspect once you do it, you're like, "Yeah, not really, it's probably fine".

Helen Tupper: Also, frequency.  If you've got a weekly meeting in, actually just moving it to a bi-weekly meeting, that just might mean that people focus a bit more on what they need to get done.  Or, maybe put something on email that would otherwise have taken a half-an-hour meeting, and you could just do it quite quickly that way. Idea number four to help you be more efficient is all about your emails.  So, lots of people spend quite a lot of time in their inbox, either writing and sending, or reading and responding.  And one of the ways that we think you can be a bit more efficient is with what you send.  So, I always think the more emails that you send, the more emails you're probably going to get back.  And also, obviously, if you spend a long time on those emails, it just takes your time away, thinking and crafting this amazing response.  So, our idea here to help you be more efficient with your emails is to set yourself a word limit. So, when you are replying or you're sending an email, be really conscious about the length of that email and try and condense it. 

And our suggested starting point is 300 words.  Try to write whatever it is you're trying to get across in 300 words or fewer.  We actually think it could probably go even a bit shorter, but just to start with, just so that you can become a bit more conscious of the length of your communication, aim for 300 words.  I

t's really easy to see the word count of an email.  So, write what you've got and then try and reduce it down.  And you know the point we said that sometimes when you're starting to do this, it might take longer?  Like, "Well, it's easier just to write a longer email".  It might actually take you a little bit longer in the beginning to say what you're trying to say with fewer words.  But once you get used to basically getting to the point quicker, it's probably better for you and it's better for the person that you're writing to as well, because it's going to take them less time to read. I think this is a nice thing to try out because it has sort of domino benefits, you know, saves you time, saves the person that you're writing to, and who's going to read your email, time as well.  So, maybe try and give that one a go.  And if you find 300 easy, if you're like, "Easy!" maybe try 200.  Try and be as succinct as possible to get what's important to you across.

Sarah Ellis: When you suggested this, I was like, "Right, I'm going to go and have a look at one of my really recent emails and just see how long it is, and see if I can work out how long it is.  I've just done that, so let's have a look.

Helen Tupper: Oh, that's a good challenge, I'm going to look at mine.

Sarah Ellis: I mean, that's 53 words.

Helen Tupper: Oh!

Sarah Ellis: But it had a document attached.

Helen Tupper: What, you think that's a cop-out?

Sarah Ellis: I don't know if that's cheating a little bit.  You know when you're like, "Well, I didn't have to say --"

Helen Tupper: "Please read my lengthy document, from Sarah".

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, my excellent document!.  Let's find one.  Here we go.  So, this is a bit of a longer one.  You see, that's 150.

Helen Tupper: Okay.  But also, I think probably looking at it, I think you need to be able to look at the email and sort of guesstimate how many words.  You don't want to cut and paste word count every time.  So, probably looking at some of your past ones and just working out, what does 200 words or 300 words max look like, will, when you're typing it, you'll be like, "I've done two paragraphs, that's about my 300 words".

Sarah Ellis: Also, I wonder if this will help you to be more efficient because you know there's that prompt -- I don't know if you ever feel like this, but I think I do have this with emails, because I am somebody who definitely could write a longer email.  I've definitely got it in me to write those things -- is, there is a tipping point where I think it should prompt you to think, "This is not an email".

Helen Tupper: Yeah.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.  And I think then, that makes you more efficient, right?  So, let's imagine I was emailing someone and I was like, "Oh, this is getting quite long".  It would probably make me think, say to one of our learning partners, someone we work with at Lego or BBC, I'd then think, "I probably need to talk to that person".  So actually the email becomes, "Oh, have you got ten minutes later today actually for a chat, one thing I want to run by you?"  And that chat is more efficient than me writing a 500-word email that somebody's got to -- because maybe it's like, you're going to make them work too hard or they're not going to be able to respond.

Helen Tupper: The same probably applies to voice notes, Sarah Ellis, who loves a voice note.

Sarah Ellis: Oh no, you're going to make me do official voice notes?

Helen Tupper: Maybe.  I mean, I do put you on two-times speed.  My children think that you sound like two-times speed!

Sarah Ellis: Really fast.  I'm always -- do you know what I always think with voice notes, I think I do voice notes to help me think things through, obviously.

Helen Tupper: Yes, I agree.

Sarah Ellis: One of the things that we've talked about, actually, in our new book, is the difference between thinking quietly instead of thinking out loud, and I think everyone needs to do a bit of both.  I was like, "Oh, if I just did those to myself, do I need to feel like I'm doing it to somebody for it to work, or could I just do it to myself?"  Save you listening.  And then, the fact you listen to me on two-times speed, you're going, "I don't want to luxuriate in this listen".  You're like, "I want an efficient listen".  So I was like, "Well, maybe what I should do, record it to myself and then do the Helen version, which is, 'Having thought this through, there are three things we need to do.  One…, two…'".  I don't know.  I don't know whether I would lose some of my conviction if I was like, "No one's actually ever going to listen to this", like if I think about the one that I did this morning, which I did do one for you this morning.

Helen Tupper: I have listened.

Sarah Ellis: I know you have.  But I'm thinking, if I just summarised that, I probably could have done in like a quarter of the time.  Maybe I'll try that.  Not for everyone.  Some of my friends and family who also get these voice notes, to be clear, you are still getting the long voice notes, because I feel like that's part of connecting.  You know connection?  I think it does a different job for me.  I think I do it for connection, not for efficiency.  And as an introvert, it's my way of connecting with people!

Helen Tupper: That's honest!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I think it is.  So, I think I see you in that category, but then I think you're going, "We're meant to be running a company", and I'm like, "Oh, you're my friend"!

Helen Tupper: I do like listening to your thoughts.  It's just, yes, I do have to work sometimes.  I'm like, "Oh, that's what she wanted to say".

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I would never describe my voice notes as efficient.  I think they do a different job.  But I might try doing something.

Helen Tupper: Part one for you, and part two --

Sarah Ellis: Part two for you.

Helen Tupper: Yeah!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, or a friend's version and then a version where it's just like…

Helen Tupper: Funny, you know that Sarah and I were laughing last week, I mean sort of laughing in a funny way, because Sarah and I are friends that have known each other for a very long time, and we are also business partners that are very, very closely connected in our work.  Sometimes, the friend/business partner line is really difficult to find!  And I think Sarah voice-noted me something last week, and I instantly went into business partner mode.

Sarah Ellis: And I was just like, "It's just a friend message really"!

Helen Tupper: You were like, "I was just sharing this thing about how I felt about something, and I didn't really need you to put any process in place to fix it"!

Sarah Ellis: It was really nice though.  I sort of went just like, I think it was more like, "Oh, I'm feeling a bit like this", and you were like, "Right, let's talk about a process, and I've reflected, I think we could do this", and I was just like, "Oh, okay, yeah".  I was just like, "It's fine.  I didn't really need anything to happen".  And it was definitely one of those moments where I was sharing for a very different reason, but I hadn't signalled that.  And it still was work-related, so obviously we intuitively go, "We need to make things better".  But it was very funny, and then we just sort of laughed about it and went, "Yeah, fine". So, the last way to be more efficient is with your network.  And this one, as somebody who is more introverted, is something I think about a bit, because I always find it takes quite a lot of energy for me to meet new people and to have these conversations.  And if you ask, "Who else?" when you have a conversation, you create this chain reaction of contacts and connections.  So, let's say I was meeting Helen for the first time.

Helen Tupper: Can you imagine?!

Sarah Ellis: Imagine!  Well, I can imagine.  A long time ago.  Yeah, I remember.  Let's not go into what I thought when I first met you.

Helen Tupper: First impressions!

Sarah Ellis: So, if you meet someone for the first time, you might say, I think towards the end of a conversation, I will often say to somebody, "Oh, is there anyone else you think it'd be useful for me to speak to about this topic [or] this area, or anyone you'd recommend?"  Or even, I will sometimes say, "Anyone else you can introduce me to?" I will be as specific as that.  And it's not that that always works, but often it does work.  People do have someone else and they often are really happy to connect you, and it feels a really efficient way of finding new people in new places.  Now, there is a bit of a watch-out here, because people know people a bit like them, and so there is always that risk of just a watch-out for the echo-chamber trap. 

And I do think you need those random acts of curiosity and meeting people where you just think, "I still have got no idea about this person, or what I'm going to learn", and they are really good, and they might feel out of your comfort zone. The other thing that I find is more efficient, and it kind of goes back to single-task time as well, is I find I'm in a certain mode when I'm having these kind of conversations.  And so, I find it much easier to think, "I'm going to meet two people in an afternoon", and both of those conversations are curious, exploring conversations.  Maybe one of them is me mentoring somebody; maybe someone wants to ask them questions about Amazing If; maybe I'm meeting someone to ask them about something that would be helpful for me.  

But the style and vibe of those conversations is quite similar.  I find it hard to do these conversations in a scattergun way, because I think my brain goes to a different place and I do then find it quite hard to refocus on tasks.  Or, if I had to do something like a proposal or a PowerPoint, I'd be like, "Oh, I'm not in that mindset now.  I'm in this conversational kind of curiosity mindset". So, you know sometimes by stacking similar things together, I try to stack similar types of conversations together wherever I can.  It's not always possible, but I find it's more efficient if I can do it that way.  And if you do the, "Who else?" as well, it's quite an efficient way of thinking, "I'm always trying to extend and explore my career community".  I don't just have a kind of one-and-done conversation.

Helen Tupper: This has worked really well for me recently, this kind of, "Who else could I talk to?" approach.  So, I recently reached out to a guy called Stephen Meyer, who had written in The Economist about crab-like careers.  And I was like, "Oh, it's about scuttling from side to side", and I was like, "Oh, there's something squiggly about that".  So, I got in touch with him, had a brilliant conversation with him.  He's got a new book out, by the way, called The Employee Advantage, very good.  I had a great conversation with him, really clicked.  And then I said, "Oh, do you know anyone else who would be useful for me to chat to?"  A

nd he was like, "Yes, my friend Steve Martin, who writes about influence, you would definitely get on".  And so, then he made the introduction, great, that took the effort away from me. Turns out Steve is also amazing, he's written a book with Robert Cialdini about influence.  And I learned loads from him and I was asking him loads of other questions.  And then, we're putting an event on and I said to Steve, "Oh, do you know anybody who's really good on performance?"  And he said, "Oh yeah, my friend, Dr Nick Pope, you should definitely talk to him".  And he made the introduction over email.  And I'm pretty sure I'll meet Nick.  I might just see how long I can continue these conversations just by asking, "Do you know anyone who…?" or, "Who else do you think I could talk to?" and just see how long I can keep that chain of connections going.  I think it's really interesting.

Sarah Ellis: So, shall I summarise the five ways to be more efficient?

Helen Tupper: Yes.

Sarah Ellis: (1) be more efficient with your repeatable tasks by using checklists and templates; (2) be more efficient with your time by avoiding task-switching, and try and be single-task-focused; (3) be more efficient with your meetings by subtracting and taking things away; (4) be more efficient with your emails by setting a word limit, start with 300 and go down from there; and (5) be more efficient with your network by asking, "Who else?"

Helen Tupper: Also, do you want some good news to end today's podcast on?  We've efficiently finished in time so that I can go and have fun with my friend!  Woohoo!

Sarah Ellis: Amazing!

Helen Tupper: Amazing!

Sarah Ellis: I don't think we got faster at the end.

Helen Tupper: No, I don't think so.

Sarah Ellis: I hope not anyway.  I feel like it's flowed exactly as we wanted it to.

Helen Tupper: Well, if anyone would like to give us any thoughts on efficiency and effectiveness, you can always email us, or your thoughts on Chicken Shop Date, all good for that too.  Email us, helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com.

Sarah Ellis: But that's everything for this week.  As always, thank you so much for listening.  We always really appreciate everybody recommending, reviewing, subscribing.  It really helps us to keep going and to know where we're being useful, so thank you so much if you've done that.  And if you've not, if you could spare us a five-minute favour, we would really appreciate it.  And we read them all every week and share them with each other.  So, that's everything for this week.  Thank you so much and we're back with you again soon.  Bye for now.

Helen Tupper: Bye everyone.