Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction

00:03:19: Categories of wrong moves

00:06:44: Components of a job

00:08:37: Ideas for action…

00:10:54: … 1: your expectation/reality mismatch

00:16:03: … 2: test the mismatch with someone else

00:19:12: … 3: take control of what you can

00:23:25: … 4: find a friend

00:27:22: … 5: okay options

00:32:45: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Sarah Ellis: Hi, I'm Sarah.

Helen Tupper: And I'm Helen.

Sarah Ellis: And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast.  Every week, we talk about a different topic to do with work, and share some ideas and actions that we hope will help all of us navigate these Squiggly Careers that we've all got with that bit more confidence and control.

Helen Tupper: And today's episode, which is on the topic of how to respond when you make a wrong move, is a highly requested episode.  So back pre-Sprint, on episode 409, which seems a long time ago now, given we've had 20 Sprint episodes, we did an episode called, "The 6 questions to ask before making a job move", and Sarah and I were chatting in the episode and mentioned, I think towards the end, so glad that people listened to the end, we mentioned, "If anybody would like a podcast on how to respond from a move gone wrong, let us know". 

And we have had so many emails and LinkedIn messages from people saying that would be really helpful.  So, we are responding to requests because this podcast is there to help you, and that's why we're going to cover this episode today. Just so that you know, regular listeners probably know this, but this episode is supported by a whole load of other tools to help you.  So, you've got the PodSheet, which is a one-page summary; we put extra resources on LinkedIn as well, so sort of swipable summaries of some of the key points and tools; and you can also join us on PodPlus, which is a 30-minute free discussion, which happens on Thursday mornings, where we just dive in a bit deeper, hear what the community has to contribute, all that stuff.  The information for everything is either in the show notes or on our website, amazingif.com.

Sarah Ellis: And for keen listeners amongst you, you might notice that Helen has a bit of a cold today, but she's battling through it.  So you might hear slightly more of my dulcet tones than you do of Helen's.  And we'll see whether she makes it to the end of the episode!

Helen Tupper: Listen to the end to see whether she makes it!

Sarah Ellis: Let's see how croaky she gets by the end!  And so, Helen and I were reflecting on making wrong moves and just how emotionally draining and confidence-damaging it can be.  And initially, we weren't sure about the episode because we were thinking, how universally useful is this?  Does this only happen maybe once during our careers?  Then we worked out how many moves we had both made that we categorised as feeling wrong in some way, and that percentage turned out to be quite high.  So, we estimated about 40% to 45% of our moves had some sort of wrong in them. 

And we probably, over 22 years of working, so we both started working in the same place at exactly the same time, so just over 20 years, we've only had three jobs that have felt right-right.  We were like, "How many jobs were you just like, 'Yeah, this is absolutely right for me, right company, everything just feels right about this'?"

Helen Tupper: I feel like we might be really undermining our credibility on this podcast.  Like, 20 years, you've had three, why am I listening to you?

Sarah Ellis: Because we've done all the wrong stuff and then we're using it to help everybody be more right.

Helen Tupper: And that is why!

Sarah Ellis: And worth saying, I suppose, that our jobs that we're in now are right-right, so I suppose we got there in the end, if nothing else.

Helen Tupper: Well, it's not the end.  What are you saying about, "If it's not the end, it's not the end?"  I can't remember.  That's not the saying, but it's something like that.

Sarah Ellis: And when you reflect on the range of wrong, so the different kinds of wrong moves you can make, I think there are a few different categories.  So, I think you can make a wrong move which with time turns out to be right.  So, there's almost a period of time where you're thinking, "I've made the wrong move, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't feel like it's working out". 

But then, and I'm sure everybody listening will have a role like this, you reflect back on it and you think, "Oh, do you know what?  Actually, that did end up being the right move once I'd been in the role a bit longer", or maybe something changed. Then I think you also make wrong moves where there are some things that are right.  So, there's a bit of wrong and a bit of right.  And in those roles, you tend to learn a lot, and these were the ones where I think this really bumped up Helen and I's percentage, because we were sort of going, "Oh, yeah, do you know what?  In hindsight, that was the wrong move based on one reason but there were some right reasons too, so it feels mixed, like a mixed bag".  

And I guess that's the reality, because so many things change and are unpredictable in the jobs that we do.  So, we had quite a lot in that category. Then I think you have what is the hardest category, which is a wrong move that stays wrong, and I think this is where it's really, really tough.  So, this is where maybe you're in a toxic environment or culture, maybe you're working for someone where actually you have a massive clash, and so there's not a lot of right, there's not many things that you can point to and go, "Well, that bit's hard, but there's all these other things that are going well". 

So I think here, what we hope is that there's something for everyone. But before we get into our ideas, the one sort of hint, I guess, that we would have based on our own reflections, because we have also both had roles that are wrong and stayed wrong, is that if that is you, it can be useful to timebox how long you're prepared to sit in that wrong for.  Because I think, as we said at the start, it can feel so consuming when this happens, if it is really wrong, and energy-zapping and demotivating, I think it's just really bad for us in all sorts of ways.

 And I think it can then live with us for a long time past that role. I really admire, there's a couple of people I know who have made moves which have been wrong-wrong, so you're like, "Wow, this is definitely not right for some very good reasons", and they have left fast.  And I think when we both started working, leaving a role fast, we were just like, "That's so unacceptable, you have to stay in a role for two years", which is a weird made-up number that no one ever came up with, and I do get it.  I think when something is wrong, I think sometimes it can turn out to be right and I think you often have a mixed bag of wrong and right, and so giving those things time, absolutely; but I have seen some people elegantly exit, as I often describe it, from things where you just turn up and you're like, "This is not what I thought it was and actually, it's really damaging to me".  And so, if you can fast make that decision to be like, "I'm going to do something different.  This is not for me", I almost think probably doing it really fast is easier than going, "I'm going to wait six months and then try to do it", because you perhaps have more alternatives that you can reconsider, which we'll talk about.

Helen Tupper: I was just thinking, as you were talking there, about the components of a job that help you to see whether it's sort of right or wrong.  You know you were talking about sometimes it's wrong and it goes right, and sometimes it's wrong-wrong?  I was thinking about if you were to deconstruct a job, there's what you're working on, so your role itself, like is it enjoyable, are you using your skills, do you feel good at it, that kind of stuff; there's who you're doing it with, so do you feel like you've got good relationships with your manager, your colleagues; there's where you're doing it, so I think that's more like the culture of the company, the purpose of the organisation, like that environment of business; and then I think there is how you're doing it, which I think is more maybe about like have you got the right work/life fit, have you got the flexibility that you need?

I think you when you are working out sort of wrong-wrong or elements of the range of wrong, as Sarah talks about, I think wrong-wrong is -- and I was thinking about mine, the one that I left after nine months -- and that is for me, because every one of those components, what I was working on, who I was working with, where I was working, how I was working, every one of those was wrong, every one. 

And I was just like, "What am I doing it for?  If every one of those things is wrong, what am I doing it for?"  Whereas, there have been some other scenarios where I think I've had only one or two.  So, if I think about my first job at Virgin, what I was working on wasn't right for me, but who I was working with and where I was working and how I was working actually were all right.  And so, I had to navigate my way through to a slightly different 'what', because there was enough right in the mix. So, I think some of this can feel, you know, a lot of this is feeling based.  So, I think the more you can make it fact-y by almost looking at the components of right and wrong, then more maybe it can give you a clue as to where you're currently sitting on the range of right or the range of wrong.

Sarah Ellis: So, we've got five actions for you to help you figure out what to do when you maybe feel, to Helen's point, I think a lot of this is feeling based, like you've made a wrong move.  So, if this is you listening now, maybe you are having those doubts or maybe you know for sure and you're just like, "Help me, help me do something about this".  We've got five actions that we just hope will help you to move forward.

Helen Tupper: Just one thing before you go on to them, Sarah, I would just say for anyone listening who's like, "But I love my job at the moment", you know Sarah was saying that actually a wrong move can stay with you for quite a long time?  My reflection, on talking through this with Sarah, given that we're both in sort of a right-right role at the moment, is that even just taking these actions and reflecting on a wrong move helps you to just re-look at it a little bit.  I feel when Sarah and I were talking about this yesterday in preparation -- yes, we do prepare -- I was like, I understand a bit more now about why that wasn't quite right.  And it just made me feel a bit more maybe objective about a role that at the time I felt quite emotional about.  So, even if you're like, "I've got an amazing job at the moment", I still think the actions can help you reflect and maybe reframe previous wrong moves you might have made.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I've been reading and researching for our new book quite a lot about blame recently, which doesn't sound very fun.  I promise the book will be more fun than that!  But it is interesting how often our brains default to blaming ourselves when something goes wrong.  So, you know if you have made a wrong move, almost you think, "That was all my fault". 

And so I think actually sometimes, with the benefit of a bit of distance as you've just described, from that wrong move, it actually might help us zoom out a little bit and think, "Well, okay, maybe I could have asked that question or I could have anticipated one part of something that went wrong", but there is also usually quite a lot of factors that are outside of your control. I definitely had one role where I looked back at it and thought for a while actually, "I made some bad decisions there.  I got that wrong".  I almost took all of the ownership and was really hard on myself for that.  Whereas actually, I redefined my relationship with that role since that point.  Because also, it's not helpful for you to have that feeling of like, I suppose it impacts your confidence.  It's lots of your gremlins, isn't it, talking to you about, "You've not got good judgment", essentially.

So, action number one is about your expectation/reality mismatch.  So, in that moment where you've made a wrong move, there's usually a disconnect between something you're expecting was going to happen and what is actually happening.  And we think it's really useful to write down and be really clear about what are those expectation/reality mismatches, which probably link to that who/what/where/when/how that Helen just described.  And I think the reason this is useful, it helps you to move from feelings to something that is a bit more factual, and you can sort of understand the gap, but also you can see, is this just an expectation/reality gap, or have I got lots of gaps and is that why this is feeling so hard?

So, just as a few examples, because I think these mismatches and gaps can be quite different, an expectation might be, "My skills are a good match for this role"; the reality could be, "I feel really out of depth.  What I thought was needed isn't what I've got to give", so that's more about your skills and your strengths.  You might have an expectation that the company you've gone to work for would be, let's imagine, innovative.  You're like, "I'm going to work for a real cutting-edge organisation"; the reality might be, "Well, my impression actually is there's much more focus on status quo, doing things in the same way", so you're like, "Wow, that feels very different to what I'd imagined".  Next one I think is very common. 

Expectation, "I was promised people, budget, team, so, "Oh, well when you get in this role, you'll be able to do this and you'll be able to do that"; and the reality is, those promises don't materialise and quite quickly you get the sense of that's clearly not going to happen.  Expectation, "I thought I'd be working for Helen"; reality, they leave, there's been a restructure, so that person, who maybe was quite an important anchor for you going to do a job, is no longer there. I think when you start to do this, even if you have a couple of mismatches, if there's something that's a significant expectation you've got that remains true, it can be enough to keep you motivated to then move to something that's more right, or to make the most also of where you are now.  So, just to give you one example, when I went through this process, when I first joined Sainsbury's from Barclays, I was so excited. 

And I stayed at Sainsbury's for six years, so it clearly worked out.  But there were two quite significant mismatches for me when I first arrived, you know, new company, you don't know anyone.  The person I was going to work for left, almost told me, I think, within a couple of weeks, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to go and do something different", and she had been a really significant part of me going for that job and feeling confident about that role.  So, that was one. Then, I had the people-budget expectation/reality. 

So, you know when you've been sold the dream of a job, which I think often happens for me because I often do jobs where no one's done them before.  So, there is a bit of like, you're not inheriting something that's gone before.  I'm often doing jobs where it's like, you're building and you're starting from scratch.  So, I definitely have been sold a bit of like, "Well, when you come in, you'll be able to do XYZ", and basically, hardly any of those things were true.  And it did really throw me, because I honestly remember having a conversation with somebody saying, "I'm really worried I've made a wrong move here", because the role was really important to me.  It was a job I really wanted to do, I really liked that area that I was working in, and I'd come from a job that was right-right.  So, I had left a job that was right-right to make this move, and then I was like, "Now things feel really quite wrong". But there was one expectation/reality that remained true, which was more about the culture and the organisation, which is like, "I think I'll enjoy working here, I believe in the values of the company, I like the people, I think there's lots to learn".  So, almost my expectation of the environment was the reality.  And I remember I needed somebody actually to help me a little bit to point that out to me, and it meant that I basically stuck it out.  

So initially, it did feel quite wrong, and that role probably never really turned out to be right.  But there was enough of the right around me, and then actually I was able to then build relationships, you move on, and I'm really, really glad that I did identify that, yeah, okay, in this moment, this is not quite the right move for lots of reasons, but actually, if I can just say with it, it almost feels like there's just about enough to keep going. That was true and I'm so glad that I did, because I loved it and I went on to have some wrong jobs that became right and some right-right jobs there, so there was a lot to love.  But where I started, it did feel quite tough.

Helen Tupper: So, the second idea is a bit of a build on what Sarah was just talking about, and it is to test the mismatch with someone else.  So, let's take one of those expectation/reality mismatches, which might be, "I think I've got the right skills for this role", and then you go into it and suddenly you're feeling out of depth and you don't know what you're doing.  Case in point, Helen joining Microsoft!  That's probably a potential example of this one, everyone.  And what is difficult at this stage is I think your confidence gremlins can really grow and compound how you're feeling, "Oh, I'm not good enough.  Everybody else thinks I'm not good enough.  I'm worried that this isn't the right role for me. 

They probably think this too", and it all starts to become a bit of a negative spiral in your head about you and the role that you're doing and why you're doing it. Now, what's really useful at this point is to test your feelings of the mismatch with somebody that you trust.  Now, that might be a manager, that could be a colleague, it might even be someone outside of the business, to be honest, it could be like a mentor.  But the reason this is useful is, if I take that example of my Microsoft mismatch, for example, at the beginning, and me thinking, "Gosh, I'm not adding the value that I thought I would and I think everyone's probably thinking that too", I remember I had a couple of conversations actually with my manager, with the person that hired me, and then the person that became my manager about, you know, was I on the right track for them? 

Was I working in a way that was adding value to the team?  And what they fed back to me was very different to what I was feeling about the situation.  So, in my mind, I was thinking, "Oh, gosh, maybe I don't fit in, or maybe I'm not doing a good enough job, I'm not adding enough value".  And they were like, "No, we like the difference that you're making, we like that you bring different perspectives.  That's part of why we hired you, and that's what we see you doing". It was a real moment to realise that my perception of the mismatch wasn't necessarily everybody else's reality in that moment, and it gave me a bit more confidence to continue.  And I think that's the point here.  You can, in these situations, because your confidence gremlins grow, I think you can start to make your own stories, and they are not always true of what other people are seeing, and they're not always that helpful for you keeping going and feeling motivated. 

So, just test it.  Sometimes, to be honest, you test your mismatch, sometimes you might get some feedback and someone says, "I'm glad you've raised it, Helen.  Over the last couple of months, I've seen this and it is making me wonder whether this is the right thing for you".  So, to be honest, you might get that feedback, but at least that then invites a conversation about what else could happen, rather than you keeping this doubt in your head and worrying about it and creating your own stories. I think most of the time people will give you some feedback that helps you to stop spiralling and feel a bit more confident in a situation.  On the occasion that isn't true and people say, "I'm glad you raised it because…, at least it's a conversation where you can take control and do something different, rather than letting all these fears and doubts magnify and not feel very good, to be honest.

Sarah Ellis: So, action number three is to take control of what you can.  So, when you are in a move that feels like it's going a bit wrong, it often feels like you don't have loads of wins along the way, perhaps you're not adding value, as Helen just described, in the way that you'd imagined or hoped, or perhaps you just don't have the ability to do some of the things that you want to do. 

So, like I described, if you've not got some of the people or some of the responsibilities or the budget to make some things happen, you perhaps have to reframe what you can control.  And look for those areas where you think, "Okay, well for now, at least, I can't do ABC, but what can I do instead?"  Because none of us like to feel like we're not adding value, and also none of us like to feel out of control. There are some areas which I think pretty much always we have high levels of control over. 

So, the relationships that we build, the learning that you invest in, things you volunteer for, sharing your strengths or your experiences, so maybe something like mentoring or sharing insights from where you've been with where you are now, and maybe projects that you put yourself forward for.  So, in this scenario here, it's obviously not ideal.  You're probably not doing the work that is most motivating and that you had hoped to do.  But I think this is almost, I suppose, rather than avoiding it, because we might hope -- here, I've definitely done this before, you sort of hope something's going to change.  You're like, "Oh, well hopefully then the budget might come my way", or, "Once I've been here for a while, things will…", but sometimes those things don't change and so you have to find another way. I think when you start to go, almost like, I suppose, it's moving from avoiding to accepting, "Okay, I'm going to accept now that this is the reality, maybe I don't have the autonomy or the accountability that I was hoping for.  

Okay, well what can I do with what I've got?"  And actually, I was talking to somebody recently about a wrong move they had, and actually it stayed pretty wrong, I think, through the whole time they were in this role, and they did this really well.  I think they were definitely disappointed that they couldn't achieve some of the things that they were hoping for, but they found another way.  And I think it was all of those other-way things that kept them going for long enough before then they could find something else that was a better fit.  Because, as we'll talk about in a bit, inevitably sometimes you just can't make these changes really quick.  Financially it's too difficult to do that, or maybe, we were talking to somebody else recently where they'd just been made redundant and they'd gone into a role and perhaps it's not 100% right, but they don't want to leave straightaway because of that security stability, they've just been through a period of change. So, I think the more here you can just spot those small opportunities to add value, the better you will feel.

Helen Tupper: I was actually thinking, Sarah, you know I mentioned Virgin?  So, my first move at Virgin was the wrong role but lots of other things were right, like the people and where I was working.  And I think what I took control of was, that was around the time that you and I started Amazing If as a side project.  And I think doing that outside of work gave me so much energy and it gave me confidence in my abilities that I maybe wasn't getting from the job because I didn't think I was doing the right job for me.  So, I think side projects can be a way.  

And similarly, when I started at BP, my first role was wrong because I just don't think it was a great skills fit for me or experience fit.  My second role was right, it was a really good fit for my abilities.  But in that first role, that was wrong, I started a learning programme with The Marketing Academy, and so I was in control of that, it wasn't dependent on my company.  So, I just remember being in that moment and feeling really energised by that thing that I had chosen to do, while maybe the work that I was doing was draining me a little bit.  And so, I've really been there where I've been like, "Okay, you can't change this, but you can take control of that".  So, learning and side projects would be very specifically things that I've done.

Helen Tupper: Idea for action number four is to find a friend.  It sounds a bit funny, this one, but I, again, in those situations where there's been some element of wrong, I think finding a friend, either in the company or outside of the company that you're in, can stop you feeling so isolated.  So, I think I've probably done a bit of both.  If I've been in a company where I felt really isolated like, "Oh, maybe this isn't the right role for me or I'm not the right fit for the company", all those feelings, finding somebody who has maybe a similar energy or similar interests to you.  I think a lot of times when we talk about networking, we talk about the importance of diversity, and I totally believe that's true in your network as a whole.  But in this situation, I think it's quite useful to find like the kindred spirit, the person who you just get on with and you can be honest with and open with, that person that will listen and give you a feeling of connection. When I've found that person in a company, I have suddenly felt like I wasn't alone. 

And it didn't make the job different overnight, but it did make me feel like I had someone to talk to.  Because I think, if you're feeling really isolated at the same time as you're doing a job you're not enjoying or you're doing in a place you're not loving, that's just really, really hard.  Now, equally, if you can't find that person in the company, because maybe that's part of the problem, the culture isn't right, you're not working with people that you're really enjoying that connection to, then this can be someone outside of work, someone that knows you really well. 

But it's just, I think if you hold all of this in your head, it just makes it feel harder.  So, to be able to listen to somebody who is empathetic and who can help you maybe see through a situation and you can just, just talk it through; they don't always have to be, you know, they're not always the solvers.  A lot of people say, "Well, why don't you do this?  And why don't you talk to your manager?  And why don't you…".  It's not that, it's just someone that goes, "I get it, that sounds really, really hard.  Do you want to talk about something else for a while?  Those people that take you away from it, I think is so helpful. So, make sure either inside the company or outside, you find your friend.  It doesn't make it go away, but it does make it feel a bit sort of easy on a day-to-day basis.

Sarah Ellis: Well, when we were talking about this, we were saying actually sometimes, you don't want to talk about it more, it's already taking up loads of your emotional energy.  And I think in these moments as well, you need friends who can give you a bit of light relief and a bit of a break.  And if I think about actually when I first joined Sainsbury's, and I was quite worried like, "Oh, I've made this big move and I'm not sure it is quite right", I did find a friend and we definitely bonded over expensive coffee, and he's still my friend today.  And we weren't going to have a coffee and we weren't talking about work.  

Actually, we were broadly in the same department but we weren't going, "Oh, what do you think about this and what do you think about that?"  We were just going, "Oh, where has nice coffee, and let's go and discover coffee places", and we got on really well and I was just like, "Oh, this just feels really nice.  And it was also something to look forward to. I think don't underestimate, often when things are wrong, it can feel quite hard to spot those things of like, "What feels like something I'm excited about?"  We often have in our team meetings on a Monday, we ask everybody in our team to share, "What's your high-energy moment for this week?"  And I think when things are going wrong, it can feel really hard to answer that question.  You're like "Well, it's not going to be from the work, because I'm not getting to do what I thought I was going to do", but it could be from having a coffee with a friend you've made, or it could be from meeting up with someone outside of work, someone you used to work with who you get on well with, even to do something different, to be like, "Oh, we're going to the theatre [or] we're going to the cinema", or just your high-energy moments don't have to come from work.  

So I think, yeah, just don't underestimate in these moments making sure you are having things to still look forward to as part of your week. And action number five is what we're calling okay options.  So, this is about taking the pressure away from finding something perfect if you are in a move where it's wrong, it's staying wrong and you need to do something different.  I think this is why I actually think the time-boxing thing can be really useful.  I've just, from my own personal experience, been in jobs where I've thought, "Right, I will give this until, like, specifically the end of March", and that I think gave me something to work towards, "and then, at that point, I will make a decision, is this right, is this wrong, do I need to do something about this?"  And actually, funny enough for me, that often gave me enough staying power to stick with it and then it did become more right, and I was like, "Oh, great".

Then sometimes you're like, "No, this hasn't got any better, maybe if anything it's got worse, I've got to do something about this", and that can feel really difficult.  And so, I think at this point, having 'okay' as your ambition is a really good frame and a really good starting point, because you're sort of going, "I'm probably not going to move to something I want to do forever, but it just needs to be fine for now".  And 'fine for now' is probably a lot better than where you are today.  And this is where I think the more creatively you can think about, "Okay, well what would be fine for now?" the more options you will generate, the more possibilities you'll be able to spot.  So, can you go back to where you were before; maybe not the same job but a different job, same company, if you know you like the company?  Could you go back and rather than do a permanent role, could you do a freelance or a contract role? 

I've also seen a lot more people do this where they have made a move and obviously it's just not been quite right for them, and they just went back, they just went back to where they were before.  They obviously did a really good job previously, maybe in a slightly different role, but often companies need really good people where they know they've got a strong fit.  So, I think that's a brilliant thing to do, I think it's a really sensible thing to do.

Or, the thing I remember thinking actually when I did first move to Sainsbury's and I was like, "What happens if this doesn't work out?" is look for industries where there's a lot of demand for what you've got to give.  So, it might not be what you particularly want to do, but it might be a better option than where you are.  So, I was always thinking, well there were lots of jobs, certainly at that time, in financial services in the area that I was in, in marketing, so I probably could have quite quickly just got a marketing job in some financial services, because the supply and demand worked in my favour at that moment in time. 

And so, that felt like, it didn't really feel like what I wanted to do, but if Sainsbury's had ended up getting more and more wrong, which actually it went the other way, I always felt like I was like, "Okay, well that would be fine for now".  It would give me the financial security I needed, I could keep building up some experience, and also it would give me the space to then think, "Well, where else and what else do I want to do?"  Because I think that's often the challenge is, you only have headspace to do so much at any one point in time, and all of this takes loads of time and energy, doesn't it, so putting loads of pressure on yourself to be like, "Well I must move to the perfect role." I think often, and I've seen this with a few of my friends actually, where they've made a wrong move because it's gone wrong, they then get really, really worried about the next one being super-right.  And I often then think that's not the moment.  That's not when you have the capacity to get to that point.  It's often like you need the in-between-ness first, and then you can perhaps move to something that is a much, much stronger fit.

Helen Tupper: And I think in Squiggly Careers, there is going to be more change.  You are going to be doing more roles, and I think that it is useful to recognise that there's probably going to be a greater range of wrong over your career, and then that is okay.  We are not looking at jobs as just, "That was a successful job, and I failed in that one, that's too binary".  I think this range of wrong is just quite an interesting and realistic approach. 

Not every role is going to be perfect, not everything that you make a move is going to go the way you want it to, and that's kind of okay and that's kind of normal.  What I do think is useful is to be able to time-box, if it feels, like Sarah says, time-box; and if it really is wrong-wrong, then for so-long-ing it, that's quite a useful thing to do. I think it's useful to be able to sort of learn along the way, so, "Why did that feel wrong, and how can I use that insight to inform what I do next?" but not to carry with that the expectation that there's going to be this absolutely perfect position that you just have to keep hunting for. 

Because, even if you think you've found it, there are so many other variables, like we said, the manager, company change, that might mean even if you apply for the perfect position, when you get that role, other things could have gone wrong around it.  So, taking the pressure of perfection away, expecting in your career that you'll just experience the range of wrong in what you do, and just trying to enjoy it and take control of what you can, I just think it's a more realistic way.  And hopefully, hearing from Sarah and me, we've had lots of wrong moves and we've had some absolute right-right ones, but that's just the course of a Squiggly Career.

Sarah Ellis: So, if you are in the midst of a wrong move that is feeling really hard, we do hope you're okay, because we do know it's really difficult and we hope some of those ideas will help you.  Or, if you're somewhere in between the range of wrong, hopefully you've got some practical thoughts as well that would help you to move forward, or that you can share with a friend.  I think we all know somebody; at any point in time, there's always somebody going, "I'm having a bit of a career dilemma, I'm not sure I've made the right move", so perhaps you can recommend this episode to them.

Helen Tupper: And just one last thing before you go, thank you for listening to the end, and if you have listened to the end, I'm hoping that you might want to maybe give us a little bit of extra Squiggly support.  We haven't asked for a while, but reviews and recommendations on Apple make a difference to new people finding our podcast.  

So, if you could just take a couple of minutes to give us a rating or a review, that would be much appreciated.  We read them all, they're a little bit of a boost for us when we see them, and so if you've got a couple of minutes, we'd love that support.

Sarah Ellis: But that's everything for this week, thank you so much for listening and we'll be back with you again soon.  Bye for now.

Helen Tupper: Bye everyone.