Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction

00:02:33: Idea for action 1: use in-the-moment mentors

00:04:09: Idea for action 2: play back the key takeaways

00:05:36: Useful resource

00:06:27: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Helen Tupper: So, today we are on the 12th skill in our Squiggly Sprint, and we're going to talk a little bit about mentoring.  And the thing with this one, we've always tried with these skills to think about why is it really useful in your Squiggly Career; and when Sarah and I were talking about this, we realised we've got slightly different reflections on why mentoring is useful for our Squiggly Careers.  So, we thought we'd share because maybe you're more like one of us, for example, with what mentoring can do for you and your development. So for me, mentoring is useful for me in my Squiggly Career because it helps me to create a lot of clarity. 

So, yes I get insight that's really valuable, but actually for me, if Sarah's mentoring me, the fact that I have to prepare for that conversation with Sarah and think, "Well, what is it I want to talk about, and what are my questions for Sarah, and how do I articulate myself in that conversation so it's really clear and I get the most from it?" that whole process creates such a lot of clarity for me that, to be honest, I mean even if Sarah didn't say anything, she does say things that are useful and lots of mentors do, but I'd actually still help myself.  It's almost the act of preparing and thinking through how to get the most out of a mentoring conversation that, by doing that, I often am able to help myself.  So, it's almost the process as well as the conversation itself.

Sarah Ellis: For me, my best mentors, it's because I've come away from those conversations inspired and motivated and energised.  I think it's how those mentors make me feel.  So, I think I feel like I can take on the world after those conversations, which I can't, maybe the career development world, who knows, but I've got really vivid memories of them.  I can really think about where I was and who I was talking to, and then I'm almost like fizzy afterwards.  That's the best way of describing it, where I sort of feel like they've just sort of opened up opportunity, or they have encouraged me to believe in myself perhaps more than I might have done otherwise.  And it's less sort of necessarily specifics like, "You should go and do XYZ", and it's definitely not, "You've created clarity".  I think they've given me a turbo boost.  I think they've supercharged my confidence in myself to go away and do something good.

Helen Tupper: It's almost for you, it's more about the person, and for me, it's more about the process, in terms of the benefit.  I mean obviously, I sound like I don't like meeting people.  I love meeting people.

Sarah Ellis: You definitely like meeting people.

Helen Tupper: I love it.  But actually, the benefit that I get is as much in the process as the person; whereas for you, it's very much about that person and what they've made you feel. Sarah Ellis: Yeah.  But then my idea for action in some ways is contradictory to that, because I think I have some long-term mentors and they make me feel the way I've just described, and that's really important, that's been really useful for me, I think they've helped me just believe in myself. 

And I think more recently, I've added to my approach with in-the-moment mentors.  And I do think sometimes, asking someone to be a mentor is a slightly weird thing to do, and it can feel quite high pressure, and you're like, "Well, what am I actually committing to?"  Whereas in the moment mentors, I think the framing in that way encourages you to be really specific. 

So, "What do I need advice on right now?" is the question that runs through my mind, because I think the role of mentors is to offer advice, to share their experiences in a way that is then useful for you and your experience. So, I might just think, "Okay, well what I need some advice on at the moment is how to continue to increase our reach in lots of different cultures and countries, with career development".  And then it makes me think, "Who could be a really good in-the-moment mentor?  Who has done that in their organisation or with some of the work that they've done?  Who might have an interesting perspective on that?"  So, I don't necessarily see those people as like, "Oh, they're going to become a really long-term mentor", but in the moment, they are really valuable.  And I think I had underestimated how valuable that can be, because it's so relevant.  And not every mentoring relationship has to keep going, it can just be on Zoom for 20 minutes, for half an hour.

Helen Tupper: My action is I think quite consistent with the whole clarity thing, to be honest, so my action is more about sort of after the moment, whereas yours is like very much in the moment.  So, what I do after I have been mentored, even if that person doesn't even realise they've mentored me, to be honest, is I play back what I have heard.

 But I do it, it's not like the verbatim conversation, like if I go back to Sarah, we've had a chat, I will sort of take out the key points and I'd be like, I'll say to Sarah, "Thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it.  There are three things I've taken away from the conversation", and I will summarise it in a way so that it's sticky, selfishly for me, because I find if I can create a few sticky statements then I'm more likely to remember it.  But I do find, and I've had feedback, that when I play back that to the mentor or the person who's mentored me without realising it, they go, "Oh, I didn't realise I'd been so wise!  I'm going to keep some of those things so I can say them to other people".

So you're almost, I mean you're sort of giving them a gift that they don't know that they've given, in a way.  They haven't realised what they said or why it's been meaningful.  And I think probably to do that, there is a bit of effort that you need to do as the mentee to really think about what is the stickiest thing someone has said, and I think it is valuable because I can do quotes and things quite well.  I think it is an ability that I have to do these little snappy statements to make them sticky.  But I think just playing, even if that's not your strength, even just playing back, "Three things that I've taken away from today", creates clarity for you and also for them. 

And so I'd recommend doing that as a kind of end to a mentoring conversation. Our recommended learn-more-from person here is Tim Ferriss, popular podcaster, some of you might know.  But specifically why we're recommending him is, he's got a book called Tools of Titans, and it is a collection of mentoring advice basically, where he asks the same questions this is what I really like about it, he asks the same questions of a lot of people. 

And what you do with that is you collect an awful lot of data that you can compare.  So, okay, if I ask ten people what their most useful career development book is, I then am able to compare and contrast.  Or, if I say to people, "What have you learned most from failure?" I then get a big data bank about why failure is useful and how I can use it to move forward. So, I do like the idea of when you're having mentoring conversations, taking his approach and think, what two or three questions could I ask everybody, and then you get a really valuable bank.  And who knows, you could turn it into a book like he has, one day.

Sarah Ellis: So, that's the end of today's skill and tomorrow we'll be talking about empathy.  So, thanks so much for listening and we'll see you again soon.