Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction

00:01:13: Busting some strategic myths

00:08:25: A strategic matrix

00:14:10: Matrix outcomes

00:16:52: Making processes fun

00:18:34: Ideas for action…

00:18:54: … 1: strategic frameworks

00:28:24: … 2: coach-yourself questions

00:35:12: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Helen Tupper: Hi, I'm Helen.

Sarah Ellis: And I'm Sarah.

Helen Tupper: And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, a weekly podcast where we talk about the ins, outs, ups and downs of work and try to give you some, well, probably a bit of Squiggly support, to be honest, but also some practical insights, ideas and things that you can take away and try out after you've listened to the podcast.  We are about 370 episodes into the podcast.  So, if you are new, welcome, there's quite a lot to catch up on.  And also you might not know about all the other resources that we have, so we've got PodSheets, which are one-page summaries of what Sarah and I are going to talk about today, so that after you've listened, you can put all that stuff into action, we really care about action; and then we also share some shorter summaries on social, so if you want something to swipe as a bit of a reminder, or share with other people if it's a topic that you find particularly useful, that might be worthwhile as well. 

Most Thursdays we also do PodPlus, which is a 30-minute free session that you can join, it happens on Zoom.  We have a lovely community of listeners that all come to share what they know and ask questions and it's just a really nice place to connect.  If you like learning about careers, there is a lovely community there on PodPlus for you.

Sarah Ellis: So, today's topic is how to improve your strategic thinking, and we wanted to start off with some myths to bust about this idea of strategic thinking, because I think there are sometimes some mindset and skillset barriers that can get in the way of developing this skill.  So, the first one is that it's not only for senior people.  I think this is a skill that we connect with the ladder in lots of ways, and I think when we connect it to the ladder, it sort of limits our learning because we think, "Oh well, it's only the people far up the ladder who need to worry about this".  Or perhaps you look at it a slightly different way that limits your learning and you think, "Oh, this is something for smart people", because this idea of strategy, just somehow everyone goes, "Oh, that's for smart people", and then you just sort of feel like, "Oh, well then that's not me".  

So, you maybe stop yourself before you even get started. The third thing is that it isn't separate from your day-to-day.  I think sometimes when you do some research on this, one of the things, the themes, that you see again and again is that people sometimes confuse maybe some of the strategic planning processes that happen, or often because there might be strategy away days, we're thinking, "Oh, it's not something that I could do day-to-day", it's almost something that happens either in an ivory tower or in isolation.  But we're talking here about how to think strategically every day. 

I think this is a skill you can use all the time.  Of course, there might be moments where we're sort of really diving deep into strategy, but I think if you disconnect it from your day job, then you're not going to have enough opportunity to practise the skill. Then the fourth one, which is slightly counterintuitive, so we've even called this, "How to improve your strategic thinking", you've got to be a bit careful, I think, with strategy that you don't miss that strategy isn't only about thinking, it's also about executing on that strategy.  And there's this great phrase about strategy where it often says, "Strategy isn't what you say, it's what you do". 

And in all my experience in strategy, and I have done those jobs where I have strategy in my job title, so I have been some of these people, I think the best strategic thinkers are not the ones who just mill around sounding smart or doing some thinking, they're the ones that come up with strategic thinking that then very clearly influences and has impact in all of our day-to-day; it sort of shows up in what you do.  I think you've got to bring those two together, so not thinking, "Oh, well Sarah's a thinker and Helen's a doer, so that means that Sarah is the strategy one and Helen's the person who does the execution".  I think that's too binary and not useful in terms of how we think about this skill.

Helen Tupper: I was just thinking about general kind of Helen's Squiggly Career experiences of strategy.  Most of my career to this point has been spent in large organisations where I think there were definitely times where there'd be this big period of organisational change or a big new thing launching, and to your point, in came the strategy experts, which were often consultants from outside, often wearing suits and they would often come in like a group and then would take over a room and that's where the strategy happened. 

And I don't think that was very helpful because it felt like you were outsourcing that strategic thinking, to your point, to smart people.  So, that wasn't a great visual to see that happening all the time.  Or, it was your point about super-smart people.  There'd be people that got a strategy in the job title and you're like, "Wow, they're brains" and they were, they were super-brainy people.  But then, it sort of became this quite intimidating skill, and that was the big company context. Then I think now, we run a small, fast-growing company, and I think I have become more and more aware of the importance of everybody thinking strategically, because maybe it's with remote working too. 

So, our team is super-flexible, everyone works in the times and ways that work for them, and so we're not all connecting at the same points of time together.  So, it's not like Sarah and I could just set a strategy and that's it.  We need everybody to think for their areas about what strategy looks like and to own it and to challenge us, or we're not able to sort of adapt quickly and work effectively.  And I think I've just become more and more conscious of this skill being something that we all need and isn't the domain of smart people and shouldn't be something that's outsourced to another company to do for you. Sarah and I get this a lot, you know, people will come to us and be like, "Oh, we think we should do a day of strategic thinking", and we're like, "No, it's not really an away-day kind of thing, it's an everyday kind of thing that we need". 

So, yeah, it's just interesting how pervasive I think the skill is and how important it is now for everybody in their roles. So, the reality is though that lots of things I think get in the way of that.  So, even like, "Oh yeah, it's really important, it's part of every day", I think loads of things get in the way, like the day job, like the doing part of things, the ability to stop and think something through so you can potentially do something differently.  I don't think that's always easy and we want to try and help you with that by giving you some tools that you can use on your own every day, or in a team, in a meeting, so it just becomes part of the way you work, but it often can be a challenge. 

Again, you might not know how.  I think because Sarah and I have worked in those big companies, we've seen some models and frameworks, we've seen some of the questions that people use.  But don't worry if you haven't yet, because they're very learnable and we'll share them with you. Again, you might feel like it's someone else's job, but hopefully we're kind of getting across this thing that everyone's job is better if they are able to think strategically.  And it's a really important skill for a Squiggly Career, both for you and your development, but also for the work that you're doing too.  Your career will be better and the work that you do will be better if you can bring the strategic thinking into your days a bit more.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I think when you have that strategic thinking skill, I think it will help you to stay relevant in your Squiggly Career.  So, you don't want to miss the boat, you don't want to have been so head down and probably delivering and maybe doing a brilliant job, that you don't then spot opportunities, possibilities or trends.  And that might be to be able to do your day job really well, but also that might be for you personally. 

I think when you're good at that sort of strategic perspective, you start to connect dots, you zoom out a bit more, you see the big picture. When I've read lots of articles preparing for today, lots of people just describe, they use this "big-picture thinking" a lot.  It's a bit of a default for strategic thinking.  And if you have that ability to see the big picture, you can think about also, "What does that mean to me?" as well as, "What does that mean for my team, or what does that mean for my organisation?"  If something's going in a direction that you think, "Oh, that's going to be more motivating to me [or] less meaningful for me", you can ask yourself some really helpful so-what questions quite early on, and I think get a jumpstart on putting yourself in a really good position, (a) to make the most of opportunities, but also (b) sometimes to think through those knotty moments as well.

So, one of the things that I re-read, because I already had it on my bookshelf for today, was the HBR, so Harvard Business Review, Guide to Strategic Thinking.  And those HBR guides are useful in that they bring together articles on a particular topic.  And I've just picked out one thing from that book today that I wanted to talk about, and you can also read about this on a free article, so you don't need to buy the book to be able to read about this.  And there are quite a few links for today's episode, so worth going to the show notes to make sure you get those if you need them.

So, here we're talking about a matrix from somebody called John Coleman, and it's the Agility Times Consistency Matrix.  So, his argument is that to be strategic, you've got to balance agility and consistency, where agility is being adaptable, you're willing to change, you maybe even anticipate and enjoy change, you're curious, you're ready to learn from others; so, that's the kind of the good stuff about agility.  And then the consistency, which I think it's really good to have that there as well alongside that, because I think sometimes you might just think it's those first things, is that actually strategic leaders, they show up, they deliver consistently, they talk about the strategy in the same way again and again, they work hard, they're there when you sort of need them to be. I think one of the things that he mentions is that, what's particularly interesting about this matrix is that it does have a natural tension that typically people tend to see themselves as slightly more one of these versus the other, and it's worth just recognising some of the things that hinder you as well as help you. 

So, if you've got really high agility, you can also become unfocused.  You might be visionary, but you can lack the sort of single-minded capability to really execute on that vision.  And if too consistent, then you risk rigidity, so maybe being stubborn, or you're struggling to adapt.  So, the two-by-two matrix, when you're low consistent and low agility -- these boxes always sound so harsh, don't they?

Helen Tupper: They do sound really harsh!

Sarah Ellis: I was like, "Oh, this feels apparently you're unreliable and uninspired".  I'm like, "Oh, crikey!"  Okay, if you are high consistency, but low agility, that's where you can be rigid; if you're low consistency but high agility, you're unfocused; and when you've got the high consistency and high agility, he argues that's where you're strategic. 

What I thought was most helpful about this is not beating ourselves up sometimes when we lack agility or consistency, but actually knowing, first of all, which one are you more?  So, are you more agile or are you more consistent?  Because I think once you then know that, you can then think about, "Okay, so what do I need to improve my consistency, or what do I need to improve my agility?" So, Helen, when you've seen that matrix and you've looked at that, where do you put yourself in that two-by-two?

Helen Tupper: I think I'm much more agile.  I think I respond to stuff really quickly and I can kind of get over things quite fast and move on to the next thing.  But I definitely see that that sometimes means I'm unfocused.  Like even this morning, I got to my desk super-early this morning, and I went from prepping for the podcast to doing some stuff for someone in our team to writing some things that I needed to get done.  But I did feel a littlebit unfocused, because I wasn't doing that in a particularly consistent way.  I hadn't planned to do all of that stuff; I was, in a sort of very agile way, responding to the different things that were happening.  So, it does mean it means I can work on quite a lot of stuff. 

I think there's benefits of high agility, but I also see the downside of that sometimes being unfocused because I don't have that high consistency.  What about you?

Sarah Ellis: I found this one quite difficult, because I sort of felt like I was medium on both of them.  Particularly, I could see the downsides in myself on both of them!  So, maybe I'm just unreliable and uninspired.

Helen Tupper: No, that's not true.

Sarah Ellis: I could see I definitely really enjoy change and I like newness and I think I'm curious and those sorts of things.  I was like, "Okay, great".  But I also get a bit distracted by, when I was reading about this it said, "These people often get a bit distracted by shiny new things, they love starting stuff", and I was like, "Yeah, okay, that's definitely me".  But I can also see the consistency in myself, like that you show up.  I do think I have a tendency to want to consistently connect the dots with, "Why are we doing this?" and say those things time and time again, and I'm also sometimes quite stubborn.  So, I was like, "Okay, maybe I'm just always boringly squarely, in the middle of medium".  No matrix ever has a medium on it, does it?  But I was like, "I think I am sort of a medium on these".

Helen Tupper: I think, you know how you always say it's like -- whenever Sarah and I talk about a matrix, Sarah will always say on a podcast, I'm surprised you haven't said it so far, but Sarah will always say -- because Sarah gets really uncomfortable about putting people in boxes, which I think is a nice thing that you do that; so I like how you're like, "I will not fit in one of these boxes, I will fit in the middle".  But I think it is a fair point.  And I think that frameworks are useful because they create a conversation, which is what we will come on to in a moment.  But I think probably the more useful thing to your point is, which are you more of at the moment; high agility or high consistency?  Which one of those is pulling you in, and what are the implications of it?  And the model just I think helps you to kind of visualise where you might be moving around to, rather than forcing people to fit into a particular bit.  So, if you are in the middle right now, I think that's a perfectly fine place to be.

Sarah Ellis: And then some of the outcomes of the so-what, when you've sort of figured this out for yourself is (1) spotting what's needed most in different situations.  So, there are times where you might want to increase your agility, and there are times where you might want to increase your consistency, so this is not a steady state thing, and I found that quite useful, it's almost kind of being situational; (2) complementing what you're good at with other people.  So actually, the reason I did like reading this article was, what he isn't saying is, "Okay, you've got to be amazing at everything all of the time".  He also talked about, "If you've got really high agility, spot someone who's got really high consistency" because actually almost together, you'll be a super-strategic thinker, and I quite like that.  I like that idea of who are you partnering with.  

And you might even, especially if you have this conversation with someone else, you can start to point to what is needed. So, you know you might say to me, "Oh actually, Sarah, I think what I really need is you to kind of hold me to account to be really consistent on this so I don't get distracted".  And so, you've made that point of like, "I maybe find that hard to do for myself, but I know that you can help me".

Helen Tupper: I mean, it does sound like as writing books!

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, definitely!  I think that's why I got to medium, because I probably also, which, you know, you've got to be a bit careful about comparison, I think I thought, "I am quite high on agility", but I thought, "but I am nowhere near as high as hell it is".  And I think I do often sometimes bring the consistency because you're so high.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, I agree!

Sarah Ellis: And then the last one, which I also just found interesting and useful, particularly for our company at the moment, is actually to be successfully strategic, you also need to have the right processes in place.  So often, you don't think of strategic thinking and processes together necessarily.  But one of the things that he talks about is that actually, high consistency comes often from having really good processes.  So, it's not always like saying the same thing over and over again, it's have you got very clear metrics that you keep coming back to; are you measuring the things that matter; are people using consistent processes, or has everybody got their own process, because that will stop you being strategic? I was reflecting on that for our company and I can see pockets of places where we do have good processes.  

We have metrics that matter, we do that every month, we've got into a rhythm with that and that helps us to be strategic.  And then I can see pockets where we're really inconsistent, and that's probably meaning that we are tactical and sporadic and a bit all over the place at times.  I think there's probably about ten different articles in that book; that's the one that stuck with me.

Helen Tupper: And just a side point on processes, I honestly feel like I have a bit of an allergic reaction to processes, just because I'm like, "Oh gosh, I don't know".  I know they're helpful, I totally know they're helpful, but I feel like it's just as someone with a value of freedom, having lots of processes just makes me go, "Oh, where's all the freedom gone?"  But I think Sarah mentioned one of our metrics that matter.  I think there is a way to make processes fun, or even the naming of them.  So, Sarah mentioned that that's a monthly way that we report on the progress of our business, the metrics that matter, and I find that a really fun meeting, where the team come together.

So, just basically, if anyone else has a bit of an allergic reaction to processes, and is thinking, "Oh, God, I don't want to think strategically if I've got to have a whole load of processes around", then I think pick one or two processes that might support the strategic thing you're working on and even naming them or making sure that you're doing them with other people, like bringing the fun into the formality --

Sarah Ellis: Making it visual?

Helen Tupper: -- is how, yeah, making processes visual.  Yeah, visualising it or making it fun, naming it, doing it with someone else.  I do remember once I joined a company and they handed me a book of 50 processes.  It was probably the worst moment of my life.  I was like, "This is horrendous, I'm going to have to conform to this in order to be successful".

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I don't like that either.

Helen Tupper: And I think that's not what we're trying to do.  I think processes should be supportive, people should feel involved and yeah, visualising them, making them part of the ways that you work, naming them so they kind of become something that supports the culture.  If you want us to talk about processes any more, let us know, because we could share some of the processes that work well for our team if it's helpful for people.

So, we have now got three ideas for action so that you can take the strategic thinking thing and you can bring it into the way that you're working on projects or maybe processes, but also the way that you might be approaching your own career development.  Lots of these things can help you in those different ways we talked about earlier.  So, the first thing we wanted to share was a couple of strategic frameworks.  So, these are sort of models, tried and tested models that you can use to support your thinking.  And probably the one that you might be most familiar with, just so you can kind of get this in your mind of where we're going with these frameworks, is the SWOT model, Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats.  I think that Sarah and I both got taught that probably in 2001, back in business school in Nottingham.

Sarah Ellis: I don't know, yeah.

Helen Tupper: It was pretty early I think when we had that.

Sarah Ellis: And zero ability to actually apply it in any sort of useful way.

Helen Tupper: Yeah.  Do you remember that lecturer, John?  He was our strategic -- do you remember that he taught us about -- was it John?  I can't remember his surname, but I just remember a lecturer called John who wore socks and sandals and taught us about big, hairy, audacious goals and the SWOT framework.  But yeah, Sarah and I -- you tend to get taught this.  I think probably even GCSE business studies, you tend to get taught this model.  So, it's a simple one, but I still think it's really useful.  But Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats.  You can think about maybe what's going on in your organisation right now; you can think about what's going on in your career right now. 

I could take five minutes and draw what are my strengths at the moment; what are the weaknesses for me in my career maybe over the next two to three years; what opportunities have I got for my development; and what are my potential weaknesses to work on? It is just a way, I think, all these frameworks are just a way of structuring your thoughts and asking yourselves questions.  And you can do them on your own, or you can use them with other people. 

So, like we said, SWOT's probably one that you're familiar with.  Maybe one that you're not familiar with, Sarah and I thought we'd share one each just in case it's a new framework that you might think, "Oh, that could be useful"; one that I have used quite a lot, it's all about horizon scanning.  So, I've done a few jobs in innovation, where what you're trying to do is sort of move your mind out of where you are right now, so that you can see into the future. A framework that gets used quite a lot for that sort of, what could this look like in the future, is one from McKinsey and it's all about strategic horizons.  It's relatively simple.  You're looking at what value could something bring and over what time period.  And horizon 1 is sort of lower-value short-term and that's sort of more about maintaining where you are today. 

So it's, what can we improve; what can we adjust; what can we iterate upon?  That's horizon one, so it's not very far into the future and it's probably not going to make a dramatic difference to your business, or your development if you're applying this to you in your own career. Horizon 2 is a bit further away, so you're going to get a bit more value but it's going to take a bit more time, and this is sort of about nurturing the new.  So, maybe what conversations could we have; what worlds of work could we be kind of exploring; or maybe it might be, if it's about your career, what sort of communities could I become part of?  

So, I'm sort of nurturing the new.  And then the third horizon, this is the one where potentially you're going quite far out into the future, so maybe go five to ten years, and this is where it could provide significantly more value for you.  So this is, what new markets could we operate in; what could transformation look like?  And again, you could apply this to your company or your career. So, I might think, "Oh, if I was going to stretch a strength into horizon 1, horizon 2, and horizon 3, like really stretch a strength, then how different could my development look?" 

So, it is a way of thinking.  I would think of it about really, really stretching things, but also there's a quite a structured model behind it, there's quite a few questions.  We'll put a link into the PodSheet to a really good article that explains how to use this horizon scanning and it's also got a downloadable template for you, so it might be worth a look, particularly if you feel like you're getting very stuck in the day-to-day, and using a framework to help you kind of think into the future would be useful, then horizon scanning is one that I would recommend.

Sarah Ellis: And so, I've used something slightly different.  I do think ultimately they all do the same thing.  They all just help you to, I think, structure your thinking in a way that helps you to see the big picture, and to make sure maybe you're sort of interrogating and asking the right questions.  So, I've used something called SCQA, which stands for Situation, Complication, Question and Answer.  And again, you can watch videos of people talking this through and lots of examples, so you can see it applied in real life to then think, "Okay, well how would I use that?" 

But the situation is essentially the context in which you're operating in today. So, if it was a situation in your career, you might say, "I'm feeling really stuck [or] I feel like my career has stalled right now", or it could be, "I'm just really curious about where my career could take me in the next few years", that might be your current context.  The complication is a challenge or change within the context.  Say you're feeling stuck, that's the sort of the situation, a complication might be, "Okay, well my company are not creating any new roles at the moment [or] we've got a job freeze.  There's no movement basically happening in my organisation", so that might be a complication. Then when you get to question and answer, so S and C helps you with what's happening, making sure you're sort of understanding that. 

The question then gets to, well what's the problem that you're trying to solve; and the answer is your initial hypothesis, which is the thing to go away and test.  So, the question might be, "What work do I find most motivating [or] what are my must-haves in my career or in my job right now?"  And then your answer might be, "Well, I think my hypothesis is that my must-haves at the moment are flexibility and something where I can come up with ideas, and I like working in a company where I can see the product", you know, you might like the tangibility of being able to see the product. 

That's your sort of, you've already had a go at answering it, and then the point is then you go away and test and learn. So, you might think, let's say you've done that scenario I've just described, you might go away and look at some jobs and think, "Okay, well that's missing one of my must-haves.  Would I consider that or would I not?  Okay, I wouldn't.  Okay, maybe it's confirming and consolidating that my hypothesis is true".  And so that's me applying it to careers.  Typically, people apply it more to team problems or business challenges. 

But again, I think it just helps you to iterate quickly.  There's a really good diagram you'll see if you dive into this a bit deeper, where sometimes one of the challenges with strategy is often described as boiling the ocean.  You know, you just keep on asking things but without actually gathering any data, or without really moving forward how much you know, you just keep going with something. What this gets you to do is almost very quickly do that question, answer, question, answer, and to learn a lot and to move forward quite quickly.  It also encourages you, sort of the opposite of boiling the ocean, is trusting your instinct and gut but without any data, which also isn't always a smart thing to do because it means you can make bad decisions, and you can make choices that aren't actually always grounded in the reality. 

So, I might think, "Well I've got a brilliant idea for our business, but if I don't go away and get any data, actually properly test and learn, you could put a lot of money into that idea and then it might not be the right one".  So again, I think if you have that tendency to either spend way too long thinking and you don't start doing, or you just trust your gut too quickly without any data, this just helps you to have a sort of in-between model, I think, for that.

Helen Tupper: Do you think you could set a timer on it so you don't sort of luxuriate in like thinking for too long and then it goes forward, or do you think that will kind of destroy the quality of the process?

Sarah Ellis: I mean, I've never seen anyone set a timer when I've seen this used in organisations.  What you might do is set a timescale on, "Well, how long are we going to do the data collection for before we then move forward based on what we know?"  So we might say, "Okay, we're going to have a two-week data gathering period where we are really trying to prove or disprove that hypothesis, and wherever we get to after that two weeks, we will judge that that is enough time".  So, I think that can be useful, because otherwise you could just keep getting more and more data forever, couldn't you?

Helen Tupper: Yeah, and then just going back to the big company thing, that experience, which is probably like, I feel like I've been slightly scarred by that strategic framing that I saw in those environments, it felt like there was a lot of talking and thinking that went on for a very long time, and that didn't necessarily then come into action.  So, I think maybe strategic sprints or something, you know where it's almost like we're going to have, "One day we're going to start doing the situation, the complication, and then we're going to go get the data", or whatever it is, but just giving it some pace.  I mean, obviously I'm orientated around pace, aren't I?  But I just think sometimes strategy is slow! 

And so if you're a bit of a pacey person, I think maybe thinking about sprints or putting some timings on it might feel like it's not just going round and round in thinking circles. Okay, so moving on from the world of strategy frameworks, I guess before we go into some questions which we think can help you to prompt your strategic thinking, we just wanted to say that if you find that frameworks feel a bit daunting or they feel hard to remember, or sometimes I think distracting, like you're thinking, "Oh, what was that framework again?  And was it this or was it that?" underpinning all of those frameworks, whichever, whether you're using a SWOT or horizon scanning or the one that Sarah talked through, are three fundamental skills which is that you are thinking, so you are just using that framework to help you think; you are sharing, so the clarity that they create is then leading to a conversation; and you are questioning what you know, the assumptions, the data, what we could do differently. Thinking, sharing and questioning are the fundamentals of any of those frameworks.  So, don't worry too much if you're like, "I can't remember those frameworks in a particular meeting". 

Just ask yourself, "What do I think; who am I sharing it with; and, what questions should I be asking?"  That's pretty much the core.  And on the, "What questions should I be asking?" we've done some of the hard work for you.  So, we've got six coach-yourself questions to help you think strategically.  Three are related to your company, so maybe Sarah can talk those through, and then three are related to your career.  So, we'll share the questions and then we thought we would maybe pick out one or two that feel most relevant to us right now, because they're not going to all feel relevant to everyone all the time, and just talk them through, so that you can just hear how it helps us to think strategically.  So, do you want to kick us off with the company ones?

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, so we've got three questions for you here. 

Question (1) which part of my organisation do I need to understand better and who could help me to find out more;

(2) which of our competitors am I most impressed by, and what are they doing well that we can learn from; and then

(3) who has the most influence and impact, and how could I work more closely with them? 

So, which of those three, Helen, do you think would be useful for you to spend some time on if you were just going to pick one for now?

Helen Tupper: I think it'd be the one about competitors, because I think often we don't really like to think about competitors because I think we kind of just see collaborators and people who are also influencing careers in a positive way, but I think maybe having that frame like who does compete with us and what do we really admire about what they do, I don't put my head in that place very often, and I think it could be useful for our business if we did.  It would definitely zoom me out from the day-to-day and it would help me question some things and bring some new insights back into the team for us to talk about.  So, that would be the one that I would take away.  What about you? S

arah Ellis: I think perhaps the first one, which part of my organisation do I need to understand better, partly because at the moment we are looking at some processes internally, which I do think will help to unlock people's ability to have some time to do some strategic thinking.  And sometimes it's hard to help people or support people if you don't understand that part of what they do particularly well, and there are some things that naturally I just don't get as involved in.  So, I can sort of spot a couple of -- I mean we're not a really big organisation so they're not big departments, but I can spot a couple of things where I think, "Well, I'm not particularly close to how that happens and therefore it is harder for me to help really usefully".  So, I think maybe that first one because that feels very top of mind for me at the moment.

Helen Tupper: So, moving on from the questions which can help you think strategically about your company, to questions which can help you think strategically about your career.  Here are three and then we'll give our perspective again.  So, (1) what are three trends that are most likely to affect your career over the next three years;

(2) what biases do you have that could get in the way of your strategic thinking; and

(3) whose career progression do you admire and what can you learn from their approach? 

So, which one of those do you think would help you?

Sarah Ellis: I always find biases really fascinating and I think the more you know your conscious and, if you can, your unconscious biases, I think the better that you are.  So, even doing that Agility Consistency Framework for me helped me, it reminded me really of some of my biases towards I like new stuff, but also that I can be quite stubborn.  So, I was like that whole thing of like, "Am I basically the worst combination of two things here?" 

But I think that's quite helpful to just understand then how that might show up to other people, both in useful ways, where is your agility quite useful and your consistency useful; and where is it sometimes unhelpful? So, I was thinking about that, and I've done some work on unconscious bias in the past as well, but not lots.  And I also know there's lots of different ways of doing that, some which are more effective than others.  So, I think that's something that I'd just like to go back to.

Helen Tupper: Mine would be different actually.  Mine would be the three trends most likely to affect my career.  I'd like to spend a bit of time just exploring that one a little bit, because I think it's really easy to go, "Oh, AI".  I also saw that that's the Oxford Dictionary's word of the year, or it might be the Cambridge Dictionary, I don't know.  I saw that on the news today, "AI is the word of the year".  But I think it's really easy to just go, "Well, AI is going to change everything".  But I was having a curious conversation with somebody, a curious career conversation, practising what we preach, earlier this week, and they were telling me about this course they'd been on all about regenerative leadership.  I was like, "Oh, that's quite interesting", about kind of what leadership contributes and not just being kind of net neutral. 

I was like, "Oh, that's a really interesting thing for people in the future". So, I think maybe spending some time looking at different trends and thinking how my role could change as CEO, what I do in Amazing If, would be just a helpful and quite an exciting thing to do as well to kind of get, "Oh, my future could look like that".  I guess it goes into the horizon scanning thing that appeals to me quite a lot, because that one gets you quite far into the future.

Sarah Ellis: And so for today, one of the things we would definitely encourage you to do is check out some of those links that we will summarise for you.  There is lots of very good-quality, free stuff out there on strategic thinking, and that's not always the case with the topics that we cover, but particularly maybe starting with, there's a brilliant website called Cascade.  It's the Cascade app, I think, but you can find it on a website, and that's one of the links. 

Just having had a look through that this morning, it's got loads of strategic principles, you can read about it, it's all pretty simple and quite easy to get your head around.  So, even just immersing yourself, I think, in this world a bit more, (a) it demystifies it, (b) you realise you can definitely do it, and then (c) you can just start to figure out, "Well, how do I usefully apply this to what I do and where I want to go?"

Helen Tupper: And all of those links will be in the PodSheet, which you can get from our website amazingif.com.  Just go to the podcast page and you'll be able to find it there.  Also on that same page, you'll be able to sign up for our weekly email, which is called PodMail.  It comes out every Tuesday and it has all the links to the PodSheet and the PodNote and details about PodPlus.  So, if you think, "Well actually, I'd quite like to stay in touch with all these tools that Helen and Sarah are creating", I think probably signing up for PodMail is the best way to do it.

Sarah Ellis: So, that's everything for this week and we'll be back with you again soon.  Bye for now.

Helen Tupper: Bye everyone.