Building relationships at work

Timestamps 

00:00:00: Introduction

00:01:33: Good boss vs bad boss

00:02:33: Understanding the colour profile matrix…

00:03:19: … red bosses

00:04:26: … yellow bosses

00:05:27: … green bosses

00:06:28: … blue bosses

00:07:32: … combination colours

00:09:23: … colour clashes

00:10:21: Thomas's career advice 00:12:33: Final thoughts   

Interview Transcription 

Helen Tupper: Welcome to the Squiggly Careers podcast.  I'm Helen, one of your hosts, and this episode is part of a special series that Sarah and I have created to bring to life some of the ideas and insights in our new book, You Coach You.  In this series of six episodes, all out in January, we'll be talking to some experts to get their thoughts on how we can all help ourselves through some of the knottier moments in a Squiggly Career.  That could be coping with a challenging relationship at work, it could be finding more meaning and connecting to your purpose, it could be, "Help me progress, I feel a bit stuck.  Help me to progress in my job".  They have got insights and expert advice just for us. 

So, each of these episodes relates to a specific chapter in You Coach You.  Today, the focus is on our relationships chapter and very specifically, how you can build a good relationship with your manager.  So, you're going to hear me talking to our expert, Thomas Erikson, who is the author of Surrounded by Idiots and Surrounded by Bad Bosses.  I hope you're not surrounded by bad bosses, but we probably all have experienced bosses or managers that maybe didn't always feel like the easiest relationship at work.  Today, we're going to talk about that a little bit more, and work out what we can do respond to it.  So, in the conversation, we'll explore how you can understand what might be driving your manager's behaviour, and when and how to adapt your approach to work effectively with them.  So, I hope you find this conversation as insightful and interesting as I did.  Here we go.  So today in our conversation, I wanted to focus on I think one of the most important relationships at work, the one that can really work for you or can also work against you, and that is the relationship with your manager or your boss, as you refer to it in your book.  And my first question, I was wondering whether it was binary, whether you have good bosses and bad bosses, or whether everybody could be a bad boss to somebody? 

Thomas Erikson: Everybody is an idiot in someone's story, that is kind of the case.  We can do our best, we can try to adapt our behaviour, leadership skills, all these things that we try to do when we manage people, but some people don't like to be managed how what is natural for me, let's say.  If you would like to be led in one way and I only lead you in another way, but another staff member will love my way of doing things, it's all about adaption, it's all about finding your way to lead this person and that person.    There are so many leadership books, management books written, and they all say, "Do it like this".  The problem is, that's never really true, because people are different.  And if you don't consider different behavioural types, let's say, within you as the boss and within the individuals that you lead, you're going to mess things up.  That's just the way it is actually.  That's why I wrote my book the way I did, by dividing it, doing this kind of matrix way of looking at things.  If you have a red boss and a red employee, that's one thing.  If you have a green boss and a green employee, that's a whole different story, and we need to understand the difficulties.  Leading is tricky, it's really, really difficult.  

If you have a red boss, who is a dominant one, she or he is very pointing with the full hand, "We have to do this, we have to do that", they're very fast-forward, very decisive, "Bam, bam, bam".  Everything is in a hurry, "We're not in a hurry, but we can speed things up a little bit now, couldn't we?  Let's do this now, pedal to the metal; let's do this", very result oriented.  Some people might perceive them a little bit aggressive, because they stare straight into your eyes like this and say, "I see what you're not doing over there.  Speed things up, buddy!"  We've all met those bosses and they are really good at creating results.  And people who don't take it personally, they adapt really well to these people.  These are the ones who, if you ask, "What do you think about my new project here?" they will tell you; you will get it straightforward right in the face, "I don't like it, I think it's bad.  Shape up, buddy, or you're out". 

You'll only hear that and that could be really, really harsh; but it's worth it, because they are honest, sometimes too honest.  The yellow factor, that's another extroverted profile, but people oriented, or relation oriented, let's say.  They are also very driven and fast-forward, but they are smiling all the time and they are happy and they see possibilities.  These are the creative ones.  They come into a meeting and say, "I have been thinking about this for a very long time", and then they start talking and you hear they are looking for the right words, because they just open the lid at the front and out comes anything.  But it sounds interesting and fascinating.  And these sorts of visionary leaders, you will follow them through fire and water and everything, because everything they say comes out as complete genius.  They are poor listeners.  They won't hear what you say, because they have so many things to say for themselves. 

So, some people feel inspired by these managers/bosses, and sometimes not seen, because they are very good at making you feel good in the short run; but in the long run, they might forget your name.  The you have, of course, on the introverted side, if you go to the more calm people, you have bosses who are green, introverted and relation oriented as the yellow ones.  They are caring and sharing and low-key in all that they do.  They don't like changes and they are conflict-averse which means, if you raise your voice to your manager, he or she might actually back away, even though he has the power over you.  You can easily insult poor little green boss, because they don't like raised voices, they don't like conflicts, because that's bad behaviour.  That means also that they won't give negative feedback to people.  They are very friendly, very kind, extremely helpful.  Always, they will remember your birthday and your husband's birthday and your cat's birthday, etc.  You will get flowers nine times per year, but they won't tell you what you have to do differently, because that can create conflict.  So, that's kind of a conundrum there on the leadership perspective.  The last colour is the blue ones.  They are introverted and task oriented.  These are when you get an engineer or an IT technician, or some neurosurgeon or tax sheriff, or something like that, detail oriented, very factual, very precise, very ABCD, you have to follow the manual.  So there, you will have a really trustworthy manager, who is very squarish in his or her thinking.  They will stay in the box.  They are exactly like the yellows, only quite the opposite, "Think outside the box; why?" will the blue ones say, and the yellow will say, "Think outside the box.  There is a box. 

I'm going to get in the box", so that's kind of a different perspective.  People kind of like the blue ones, because you can trust them.  If they say, "I will deliver on Monday", they will.  They will give you an answer for your request for a raise or something, but they won't see you as an individual, because you are an asset, because they are not relation oriented.  Then, of course, you can combine the colours.  Combinations are extroverted, meaning red and yellow.  They can also be introverted, meaning green and blue.  You can, of course, have a relation-oriented boss; a common combination is green and yellow.  It's all fun and you're going to get cinnamon buns every Wednesday and everything is fantastic, but they might forget about the deadlines, etc. 

Then you have also the task-oriented combinations, meaning you have a blue and a red boss in a combination, which is also tricky, because the red one is the accelerator, let's say, and the blue one is the brakes.  If you push all the pedals at the same time, it's going to be strange.  You're going to notice that as an employee because, "Hurry up, but make sure you get all the details with you".  You have to do it 100% perfect, but you have to be ready before everybody else, which is kind of impossible.  They can raise impossible demands on themselves.  So, that is the basics.  If you have a red boss, he or she are not interested in listening to you, unless you have a really, let's say, important message to them.  If you have some random things to say when you're passing, "Hey, by the way, I picked up this or that", they don't want to hear this.  What you tell them is 1, 2, 3 and leave the room.  They sit there and nod and smile, because they have learnt how to do that, but they don't want to do it.  They think you're annoying and slow and you take up the time. 

So, if you have something to say, say it and leave.  When your yellow manager is saying, "Wow, I had this brilliant idea, we're going to do this, we're going to change everything!" you can say, "Well, I'll believe it when I see it", because there's going to pop up another idea within a week or two and who knows?  It's just the way it is, etc.    You have to be, of course, self-aware.  When you react negatively to what your boss is doing or saying, then it doesn't have to be about him or her, it could be about you.  If you are green and you have a red boss, you will seriously believe they hate you, because they will never ask you how you are, and they will always complain about your behaviours and your performance, etc, because that is what they do.  They don't care about you, they care about your performance.    It's always going to clash when you bring in the red people.  They don't care, because they don't care about conflicts; that's just another way of communicating.  The higher up in the hierarchy you go, the more red behaviour you will see, because they have sharper elbows than everybody else, and they are competitive.  So, they will run for the top, but they will run for the corner office the quickest.  That is not the same thing as saying they are more competent; that's a whole different story. 

Helen Tupper: So, Thomas, if someone is listening to this now and they are having a real challenge with their manager, they're finding it really hard and they've hopefully taken lots of insights away from this conversation, is there one piece of advice that you would give that one person listening now who's thinking, "What do I do next?" 

Thomas Erikson: "What do I do next?"  Well, I hope I haven't scared anyone away, but the best advice I ever got is the same advice I use now: pick your boss carefully.  That sounds strange.  It's like saying, "Pick your parents".  No, it isn't, you can change your boss, you can change your manager; you can't change your mother or your father.  But the thing is, regardless of the position you're in, how fascinating it is, how self-developing your tasks are, the assignments, and who you are, if you end up with a really bad manager, nothing can help you.  Yes, this is unfair, I totally realise it, but you can't do anything about them, you can never change them.  You can't even change yourself, so don't think you can change them, that's just impossible.  I was looking for one specific position many, many years ago.  The CEO was there and the Head of the HR department was there, two men, twice my age. 

And the CEO said, "Well, here we listen to the staff and we have these strong organisational values and it's very important.  We are a corporation and we do this and we trust our people", and every time the Head of the HR department opened his mouth, the CEO just shushed him, "Hang on, I'm talking now".    They offered me the position and I said, "No, thank you", and I actually told him, which I maybe shouldn't have done, "It's how you treated your closest staff member there.  He is in the top management team and you shushed him all the time.  That's rude.  Don't talk to me, don't give me the corporate values when you behave like that.  It's just something on a piece of paper, you don't live by it, so I don't trust you".  You have to compare what they say with what they are doing; that is the key that takes time, and you have to observe, you have to be there and observe what is actually happening here. 

Sometimes, you're better off somewhere else, it's actually true. 

Helen Tupper: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode on relationships, and very specifically on those bad bosses and how we can respond and adapt to them when we might need to, and when we might not as well.  Do let us know your feedback on this episode, very interested to hear.  You can just email us, we're helen&sarah@squigglycareers.com.   

Next in our special series, you're going to hear Sarah talking to Adam Morgan about how to overcome career constraints.  And, You Coach You is out now, hooray!  We've been waiting for it for a while and we're very happy it's out now.  So, whether you're interested in developing in a new direction, or maybe building your resilience reserves, we've written our book to help.    It's really, really practical, there's loads of things for you to fill in; it's helping you to coach yourself. 

So, we want you to use it and scribble in it.  There are over 50 ideas for action, 100 coach-yourself questions, so many different tools to try out.  Use them on yourself, maybe try them out with other people as well.  It's how we all make careers better for everybody.    We do really appreciate you supporting and sharing our work, so email us with your feedback, and tag us in your photos.  When your book arrives, I love to see people with their book, and you tag us on LinkedIn, Helen Tupper and Sarah Ellis, or on Instagram @amazingif, wherever you are we would love to see it.  By doing this, it gives us a bit of excitement, because the book goes out and you don't know how people receive it. 

So, it makes it really real and tangible for us, and it also helps other people to see the book, so you're also helping us to help other people with their Squiggly Careers.  But thank you very much for listening, and we'll be back with you very soon.